600whp (700hp) s2000
05-04-2019, 01:33 PM
#1
600whp (700hp) s2000
I would like to ask what parts I need in order to accomplish my goal (not daily driven) and which is the best in every single field.Thank you very much for your time.
05-05-2019, 01:18 AM
#3
E85 gonna need 2200s, 450 wally, good fuel lines, AEM EMS or something to tune with, and a 62mm range turbo, with a GOOD Flowing manifold. (Jason Schmuck)
Head studs and valve train for safety.
have a few spare diffs and transmissions too... LOL
Head studs and valve train for safety.
have a few spare diffs and transmissions too... LOL
05-05-2019, 01:59 AM
#4
E85 changes with the seasons and isn't required to be 85% even when it is E85.
It all comes down to how much air you can pump through the engine: boost, displacement, engine speed, and VE.
For durability, there is an active debate on this forum about O-ringing the block, but agreement on the high yield strength head studs. Builds at the level with have aftermarket pistons designed for turbo use, generally a sleeved block, and stronger than OEM rods. Unless stroking, often the OEM crank.
The top end will usually get high-end valves, maybe an Inconel or other high temp exhaust valve, upgrade valve springs, retainer, and keepers...to get power it will be spinning fairly fast. Most seem to change the cams, but calling experienced builders (4Piston, InlinePro, Prayoonto, Drag Cartel) is probably a good starting point. If it where mine, I'd talk to the builders and end up buying a long block or even complete engine.
Cars at that power level generally aren't running S2000 transmissions, rear ends, or rear axles. Typical transmissions are Nissan CD009 and Tremec T56, rear ends Ford 8.8 or Nissan R200/R230. DSS seems to be the preferred source of the axles. The 960hp S2k in another thread used a sequential Quaife and configured the ECU (a Motec) for clutchless no lift upshifts. The clutch will be significant. Whether is one disc or multi-disc would be a question. This part can end up costing nearly as much as the engine.
Several companies make manifolds. However, some produce more power...a function of the runner size, design, length, and the merge collector. Exhaust will be an issue. There is an engine her producing 960hp with the unmuffled exhaust popping through the hood. At that power, there is often/always an aftermarket intake manifold and throttle body.
From what I can tell, at OEM displacement it would require roughly 35psi at 9000-9500 rpm. Lots of turbos could do that, 88 lb/min @ ~3.5 pressure ratio. But they are all big. The trick is matching it because some of the choke lines on the compressor maps move to the left at higher pressure ratios. For example, 88lb/min @3.5 is very close to the choke line on a Garrett G42-1200 Compact. All of the new EFR models could handle it including the BW EFR 8474. If the car is street driven there may be some sacrifice on the high end to allow more of a low end.
4Piston built a 2.5L K-series for Wiesco that they rate as 600hp on pump gas, 800hp on E85, and 1200hp on C85. Except for the shorter stroke, the S2000 engine is fundamentally the same.
05-05-2019, 05:12 AM
#5
Isn't an AEM EMS a bit dated for this sort of build? Would you go with one large injector or dual injectors?
E85 changes with the seasons and isn't required to be 85% even when it is E85.
It all comes down to how much air you can pump through the engine: boost, displacement, engine speed, and VE.
For durability, there is an active debate on this forum about O-ringing the block, but agreement on the high yield strength head studs. Builds at the level with have aftermarket pistons designed for turbo use, generally a sleeved block, and stronger than OEM rods. Unless stroking, often the OEM crank.
The top end will usually get high-end valves, maybe an Inconel or other high temp exhaust valve, upgrade valve springs, retainer, and keepers...to get power it will be spinning fairly fast. Most seem to change the cams, but calling experienced builders (4Piston, InlinePro, Prayoonto, Drag Cartel) is probably a good starting point. If it where mine, I'd talk to the builders and end up buying a long block or even complete engine.
Cars at that power level generally aren't running S2000 transmissions, rear ends, or rear axles. Typical transmissions are Nissan CD009 and Tremec T56, rear ends Ford 8.8 or Nissan R200/R230. DSS seems to be the preferred source of the axles. The 960hp S2k in another thread used a sequential Quaife and configured the ECU (a Motec) for clutchless no lift upshifts. The clutch will be significant. Whether is one disc or multi-disc would be a question. This part can end up costing nearly as much as the engine.
Several companies make manifolds. However, some produce more power...a function of the runner size, design, length, and the merge collector. Exhaust will be an issue. There is an engine her producing 960hp with the unmuffled exhaust popping through the hood. At that power, there is often/always an aftermarket intake manifold and throttle body.
From what I can tell, at OEM displacement it would require roughly 35psi at 9000-9500 rpm. Lots of turbos could do that, 88 lb/min @ ~3.5 pressure ratio. But they are all big. The trick is matching it because some of the choke lines on the compressor maps move to the left at higher pressure ratios. For example, 88lb/min @3.5 is very close to the choke line on a Garrett G42-1200 Compact. All of the new EFR models could handle it including the BW EFR 8474. If the car is street driven there may be some sacrifice on the high end to allow more of a low end.
4Piston built a 2.5L K-series for Wiesco that they rate as 600hp on pump gas, 800hp on E85, and 1200hp on C85. Except for the shorter stroke, the S2000 engine is fundamentally the same.
E85 changes with the seasons and isn't required to be 85% even when it is E85.
It all comes down to how much air you can pump through the engine: boost, displacement, engine speed, and VE.
For durability, there is an active debate on this forum about O-ringing the block, but agreement on the high yield strength head studs. Builds at the level with have aftermarket pistons designed for turbo use, generally a sleeved block, and stronger than OEM rods. Unless stroking, often the OEM crank.
The top end will usually get high-end valves, maybe an Inconel or other high temp exhaust valve, upgrade valve springs, retainer, and keepers...to get power it will be spinning fairly fast. Most seem to change the cams, but calling experienced builders (4Piston, InlinePro, Prayoonto, Drag Cartel) is probably a good starting point. If it where mine, I'd talk to the builders and end up buying a long block or even complete engine.
Cars at that power level generally aren't running S2000 transmissions, rear ends, or rear axles. Typical transmissions are Nissan CD009 and Tremec T56, rear ends Ford 8.8 or Nissan R200/R230. DSS seems to be the preferred source of the axles. The 960hp S2k in another thread used a sequential Quaife and configured the ECU (a Motec) for clutchless no lift upshifts. The clutch will be significant. Whether is one disc or multi-disc would be a question. This part can end up costing nearly as much as the engine.
Several companies make manifolds. However, some produce more power...a function of the runner size, design, length, and the merge collector. Exhaust will be an issue. There is an engine her producing 960hp with the unmuffled exhaust popping through the hood. At that power, there is often/always an aftermarket intake manifold and throttle body.
From what I can tell, at OEM displacement it would require roughly 35psi at 9000-9500 rpm. Lots of turbos could do that, 88 lb/min @ ~3.5 pressure ratio. But they are all big. The trick is matching it because some of the choke lines on the compressor maps move to the left at higher pressure ratios. For example, 88lb/min @3.5 is very close to the choke line on a Garrett G42-1200 Compact. All of the new EFR models could handle it including the BW EFR 8474. If the car is street driven there may be some sacrifice on the high end to allow more of a low end.
4Piston built a 2.5L K-series for Wiesco that they rate as 600hp on pump gas, 800hp on E85, and 1200hp on C85. Except for the shorter stroke, the S2000 engine is fundamentally the same.
at 200cc more than a f22 ive already shown it to make 600whp @ 8k rpm on a relatively small turbo. And no, outside of a motec, aem infinity is one of the best you can get at a decent price point
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05-05-2019, 10:56 AM
#8
When wrote that post, for some reason I was reading 700whp, which is the level you are shooting for.
Yes, 700hp, 600whp, is less than than the 800hp, 700whp in my error ("35psi at 9000-9500 rpm. Lots of turbos could do that, 88 lb/min @ ~3.5 pressure ratio". For 2.153L@8000 would be around 75 lb/min @ 3.5 pressure ratio. Precision doesn't provide maps so they can only be sized from experience. BW and Garrett provide maps for the compressor, but the turbine side is still a SWAG, Even when they provide a map they don't provide the efficiency map and calculating the flow through the turbine and the effect of backpressure is nowhere. Ditto the turbo cam question. Engine speed and displacement still count. 2.4L@9000 rpm would get there at a 25psi boost. With low compression pistons, it could get close to 600 crank hp on pump gas.
The S2k's F-series engine sits at the top of Honda's street engines, arguably above the C30a/C32a in the NSX. The heads flow better with big valves. It has a roller cam vs. the flat tappet bucket used on most other DOHC high-performance engines (2JZ, 4G63, VR38, etc). It's compact and all aluminum. It comes with a crank that is racing strength. People have abused them to over 100k miles with few problems. A natural to modify with lots of third party support, although a lot of that support focuses on the much more common K-series in FWD chassis (although AWD seems to be a new rage there).
I think you are very aware of the costs and many of the issues. You blew a head gasket. Others have torn about transmissions. Less an issue with 100 less hp than I posted...yes. How big a difference? Maybe you can comment.
Yes, the AEM Infinity is a good value for what it delivers. My comments were about AEM EMS, which I was considering for the Supra since before the EMS-2 came out. AEM's has a huge feature set and has at times offered some very interesting components, including a CAN bus controller for 4 O2 sensors with back-pressure compensation, torque measuring UV joints, etc. People tune Hondas with HonData piggybacks. When doing a $10k-$20+k build how much is saving $500-$1000 on the ECU worth? Note that you recognized the Infinity over the EMS-2 in an earlier post and another poster (with one of my favorite builds on this site and multiple turbo builds on his resume) who is using an EMS-2 has a more pointed view: https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-en.../#post24563853
05-05-2019, 01:43 PM
#9
You had me confused at just referencing "aem EMS" as any stand alone is an EMS. "Engine management system"
I'm no expert on the tuning side of things. I know the few race teams I worked with we always used MOTEC and so did every single other team in the series. They are just expensive as all hell, but offered the most features and didn't have the bugs that I've seen in the AEM V3.
I attempting doing the "calculating" for what combination would produce what power, but it never worked out and always just end up figuring that aspect of it out by trial and error, as do most others. There's just too many variables to account for.
I'm no expert on the tuning side of things. I know the few race teams I worked with we always used MOTEC and so did every single other team in the series. They are just expensive as all hell, but offered the most features and didn't have the bugs that I've seen in the AEM V3.
I attempting doing the "calculating" for what combination would produce what power, but it never worked out and always just end up figuring that aspect of it out by trial and error, as do most others. There's just too many variables to account for.
05-05-2019, 03:20 PM
#10
You had me confused at just referencing "aem EMS" as any stand alone is an EMS. "Engine management system"
I'm no expert on the tuning side of things. I know the few race teams I worked with we always used MOTEC and so did every single other team in the series. They are just expensive as all hell, but offered the most features and didn't have the bugs that I've seen in the AEM V3.
I attempting doing the "calculating" for what combination would produce what power, but it never worked out and always just end up figuring that aspect of it out by trial and error, as do most others. There's just too many variables to account for.
I'm no expert on the tuning side of things. I know the few race teams I worked with we always used MOTEC and so did every single other team in the series. They are just expensive as all hell, but offered the most features and didn't have the bugs that I've seen in the AEM V3.
I attempting doing the "calculating" for what combination would produce what power, but it never worked out and always just end up figuring that aspect of it out by trial and error, as do most others. There's just too many variables to account for.
In the end, the engine is an air pump and everything is about either increasing the capacity of the air pump, the density of the air mixture, and reducing parasitic losses.
One ECU there are a lot. Motec often competes with Cosworth Pectel and Life on the high end. The M130 isn't wildly expensive compared to a Haltech 2500 or Syvecs. Then there are a slew in the $1000-$2500 range. The ECUMaster EMIU Black is $1100, with pretty decent specs.No PnP for the S2000 though. Problem here is the S2000 is a relatively small production specialty car that has been out of production for 10 years. The oldest ones are just a few years from qualifying for historic plates with my wife's 1938 Buick. HPA, which interviewed Stu on his car, has a tremendous amount of information on their website an forum.