No I would not consider it. It would not package as well. I'm having all I can handle developing this part. Then it goes against my grain to use exhaust turbines on a road car. I think they are fine for over the road trucks and tuna trawlers. I do not think they are the answer for the road goinf sports car.

They are hard to control and there is long term reliability problems. That heat has to go someplace. Heat kills. It is not "free energy" I don't want to have a big fight over this guys. But restrict the exaust and it hurts. Why would you want a free flowing exhaust then. If it doesn't hurt then leave the stock exhaust on. Put a plug in it why not.

On top of this no one ever talks about the fact that all the compressor maps that show efficency for these units are spun in the lab to get those numbers. How would that map look if the other side of the turbo was glowing at 1700 degrees? There is heat transfer. If not why don't you hold on to the compressor side next time it's on the dyno full load.

So that's why I will not do it.

If sometime I tell you the story of how this supercharger started out you will see it is because I was trying to develop turbo kits and decided there was just too much heat. From that thought came the downturn of my life.

 

Richard:

I just want to say thanks for sharing your knowledge on this forum. I don't follow half of it (I'm a computer programmer, not a mechanical engineer), but I appreciate the lifetime of experience you bring to this discussion.


I figure by the time I'm ready for a supercharger (in 4 years when the car is paid off), your's will be on the market.


Thanks again,

geekd

 

One of the best informative thread I have read on this board for a long time.
I wish you best of luck developing this kit for S2000 and I know the S2000 community will flock on this setup once it proves itself.

 

With the Vortech and Comptech SC kits (and I suspect this kit also) should you brake a belt you can drive perfectly normally like a naturally aspirated S. The disruption of air flow from the impellors is minimal. You could get to a service station, or to the other side of the country if you like.

 

From what I can see, this SC looks simple enough that just about anyone could install it them selves without having to pay $500+ for installation. Another upside to your SC, is that it appears you can easily sale it for a third of the price of competitors SC and still make a decent amount of profit. The only thing I would like to see out of this SC is a minimum 120 HP so it could compete with the competitors.

 

this is very interesting. the fact that the charger is behind the throttle body is so innovative. you dont have to worry about "blowing off" pressure because there is no pressure that will surge back into the compressor. I hope everything works out. good luck, i will be tracking this thread for future developments.

 

The simplicity of this design is mind blowing.
All the original vacuum lines being place post throttle body and pre inlet to the compressor would never allow the stock components to see a boost condition. All vacuum lined hardware would only see pressure changes that are equivalent to stock conditions. Only one additional line post compressor would be needed. The additional line would be needed to allow visibility of the amount of

 

Boy you don't mind dreaming do you. All that sounds nice and I'd love to jump on it but it is something that just can't be tuned to match all those conditions you speak of. The maps are called maps because they are not curves. They have three dimentions. On top of that there are sensors that get to overide pre installed criterior.

Somewhere in the operation of yjour car they will see something not right and try to counteract it. I'm on your side, I hate not having control and being spied on by a computer who will strike me down with authority. Al I can do is take a hammer to the black box. It's worse then when your computer locks up so bad that it refuses to let you shut it off. Your only recourse is to show the authority of unpluging it. There take that you piece of $hit.

I see the easies and most cost effective to be using the E manage with the optional nozzle loom. Program the thing as best you can up until 90% duty cycle on the stock injectors. After which bring in two optional injectors mounted prior to the supercharger. WHAT you say? That's what I said BEFORE the compressor, and mine is the only one that you would want to do this with. Why?

Because it will mix te air/fuel better than it can itself down close to the block.
Think about hundres of little wings running around at hundreds of miles per hour. Then mirror imaging these are static blades thet beat the mixure close to a solution. I have a paper I have writen that shows some preliminary tests on this. I wish there was a way I could make it available here as I did on the Rx8 forum. It is several pages long and I don't want to put it in just as post. Not everyone is going to want to read it.

So bringing in the extra nozzles allows the stock maps to be unchanged during off boost operation. Then you can go rich under boost for safteys sake.
Hope I got the point across. I prey every day for Webers and a distributor.
They don't go behind your back and nip at your ass. Well not if you know what your doing anyway.

 

I like the idea of injecting additional full when you are in boost.
The atomization of the fuel as it passed through the compressor would create a lower outlet temperature and insure that you never go lean when on boost.

How many new injectors would be needed and how would you supply fuel to them?
Here is what I was thinking.

Tag off the fuel rail before the stock return fuel pressure regulator location.
Replace the stock pressure regulator with a rising fuel pressure regulator.
You are gong to need additional fuel rail pressure and flow rate when the additional injectors are operating due to increased demand. Would a return fuel line be needed on the aditional injectors since the fuel supply is taged in before the stock return location???

Each new injector(s) (4?) Would be electrically paralleled with a single stock injector. Basically you now have two injectors pre cylinder.
Use an integrated circuit that has a pressure-activated signal that only allows the (4?) new injectors to activate when on boost.

Size the new injectors (most likely smaller than stock) to make up the difference in fuel needed when on the boost. I don

 

You can run the fuel in that way to the nozzles. But everything else is to simplistic. What we do is use one or two injectors on the SC inlet. Remember you can run a large injector here because you are not worried about low speed comtrol or getting a fine spray. It doesn't matter, put it in with a hose, it will be atomised whan it comes out.

The E manage has a harness for two extrea injectors that can be programed seporatly from the main injectors. I used a Hal Tec once with 16 nozzles on my blown small block. That system let the second set come in and it adjusted for the 16 flows by lowering the duty cycle on all. I wanted to have different size nozzles on primary and secondary but at the time they didn't have the capacity in the computer. Since that was 14 years ago I can assume they could do it today.

I had no problems with the Haltec and leave that as an option here. They were more than willing to produce the custom loom for me. That was on a one off basis too.

Whatever control we use the operation will be the same. Use stock maps up to the point where extra air is being forced into the engine. This gives stock parameters during most of your driving. You get to pass CAFE on the standard tuning, because they never have full throtle operation in the test cycle. The supercharger is just spinning in the wind of the intake airflow so all the emisions should be exactly as before. It should just sail through the tests. Because it is really not there.