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Knock Count

 
Old 02-11-2019, 02:31 PM
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Default Knock Count

So I'm starting to see a lot of knock counts. I can't determine if it's ghost knock or real knock. I'm assuming it's real since it only detects knock counts at a very specific rpm range. At low load, around 3000-4000 rpm, it will start detecting knock counts. WOT and ranges before or after that area no knock counts. Any ideas what could be causing this? It didn't use to do it before. No changes have been made. All of a sudden seeing 50-100 knock counts within 30minute street driving.
I pulled the spark plugs and they all look similar with no signs of problems.
I was thinking maybe it was bad gas (e85), but even after a recent fill up no change.
I was also thinking it may be the cold weather, but regardless of how much fuel i add or take away, or timing i add or take away, the symptoms remain the same.
The only other problem I can think of that I haven't checked is that maybe the fuel injectors are getting clogged somehow? Fuel pressure remains the same at 45psi. Might pull the injectors to get them cleaned then add a fuel filter in-line.

If anybody has any other suggestions to check for lmk. Car drives fine just like before and doesn't make any weird sounds.
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:00 PM
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Weird that when you retard timing knock continues.

I’d check:
- Correct setup of the knock sensor
- Correctly selected frequency for our motors
- Physically loose sensor / damaged
- Running too rich, or too lean
- Lightly tap the block with a metal hammer and see if knock sensors picks it up, to confirm that it works
- Bump octane level as high as you can and see if knocking goes away (maybe ultra bad gas?)
- Check all plugs and coils again, just in case it’s just one cylinder that’s knocking
- Check motor mounts or anything around the car that could be causing noise that your knock sensor (microphone) could be picking up
- 3-4K RPM you said, check VTEC engagement, just to see what cam profile you’re on
- Take it to a tuner who has audio equipment to listen for knock
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Old 02-12-2019, 11:22 AM
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Doesn't sound like you are getting actual real knock to me based on what you said. Low load is usually not associated with detonation for starters. An engine will knock under heavy load if its prone to that for typical reasons.
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Old 02-12-2019, 05:42 PM
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Turn the knock sensor off, it is junk and sounds like it is only showing noise, not knock. They are notorious for this and thus not needed.
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Old 02-13-2019, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by EOE View Post
Weird that when you retard timing knock continues.

I’d check:
- Correct setup of the knock sensor
- Correctly selected frequency for our motors
- Physically loose sensor / damaged
- Running too rich, or too lean
- Lightly tap the block with a metal hammer and see if knock sensors picks it up, to confirm that it works
- Bump octane level as high as you can and see if knocking goes away (maybe ultra bad gas?)
- Check all plugs and coils again, just in case it’s just one cylinder that’s knocking
- Check motor mounts or anything around the car that could be causing noise that your knock sensor (microphone) could be picking up
- 3-4K RPM you said, check VTEC engagement, just to see what cam profile you’re on
- Take it to a tuner who has audio equipment to listen for knock
I've been around the houses with the afr
and to the moon and back with the timing
It is NOT knock I still get "knock" counts 3-4k rpm at light throttle too
Ensure you have a zero count at WOT

As I self tune with a Flashpro I take most of my info from Hondata. If you search hondata false or phantom knock you will see plenty from them like their quote below
. If you retard ignition and the knock level does not change, then it is mechanical noise from the engine. The cause can be almost anything - aftermarket parts, a loose bolt etc. The most common causes are from after market valve train parts, exhaust headers and engine mounts.

Last edited by Colin Shipp; 02-15-2019 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 02-13-2019, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Spoolin View Post
Turn the knock sensor off, it is junk and sounds like it is only showing noise, not knock. They are notorious for this and thus not needed.
Please don’t do any of what’s suggested above. Unless you replace it with a new one that is.
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Old 02-14-2019, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by EOE View Post


Please don’t do any of what’s suggested above. Unless you replace it with a new one that is.
My tuner has been tuning for decades and is VERY well known. He doesn't use the knock sensor on the F2xc engines due to the issues that the OP is having. A competent tuner doesn't need a knock sensor. This is why you read the plugs after a hard pull.

Last edited by Spoolin; 02-14-2019 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 02-14-2019, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by EOE View Post
Please don’t do any of what’s suggested above. Unless you replace it with a new one that is.
Agreed

Originally Posted by Spoolin View Post
My tuner has been tuning for decades and is VERY well known. He doesn't use the knock sensor on the F2xc engines due to the issues that the OP is having. A competent tuner doesn't need a knock sensor. This is why you read the plugs after a hard pull.
As someone who works for an internationally respected tuning shop that builds some of the craziest R35's on the planet, I am going to have to strongly disagree with this. Do you really think high end ECU manufacturers are integrating multiple knock frequency channels and individual cylinder knock control because it can't be accurately monitored electronically?

A relevant article on the matter here, again by a globally respected source...

https://www.hpacademy.com/technical-...ing-for-knock/

Reading the plugs after a pull does NOTHING to prevent potential damage occurring on the run itself. What happens if conditions change when compared to when he was tuning the car and it actually does knock? Just pull those plugs and hope she holds together? It's honestly pretty mind blowing that you are really suggesting just reading the plugs after a hard pull in 2019. Is your tuner faxing over new cal's too? Part of your tuner's job should be actually finding the knock frequency for your car so that the ECU can protect the engine before it's too late.
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Old 02-14-2019, 10:46 AM
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I have to agree in this tuning logic. Reading plugs tells you if you have already created damage so that's a terrible strategy. There has to be some accurate way of getting a reading. If the knock sensor is picking up phantom knock, either learn to identify that read through it or better yet get a sensor/set up that is more accurate.
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Old 02-14-2019, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by s2000Junky View Post
... get a sensor/set up that is more accurate.
How??? Can you give an example of a more accurate knock sensor? Or an alternate way to mount it? Or is this irrelevant information?

I honestly don't know know what is actually going on here. What's true? Knock does not occur at low load and only at wot so I shouldn't worry? Or should I be concerned with the knock counts being recorded at low load between 3000-4000rpm?

I've also read in previous threads that phantom/ghost knocks occur mainly over cyl 2 and 3 since the location of the knock sensor is in that vicinity. Which makes sense why all my knock counts are being recorded from cyl 2 and 3. What I don't get is the fact that I am getting knock counts now whereas I did not before. Maaaaaybe I just didnt notice them being recorded before...maybe.

So, should I be worried about this or no? And if yes, whats the solution?
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