No one builds a proper turbo kit for the S2K .... prove me wrong! :-)
12-28-2012, 10:15 AM
#22
Former Sponsor
So perfect kit would be.... A P-Tuning kit... but get rid of the oil pump and just use a proper drain/return into the pan. And swap out the manifold for a top mounted tubular like P-Fab so you can use TS T4. DONE!
I think that for this car, the Ptuning bottom mount and Full Race ramhorn kits are pretty close to perfect with a GT30R. Instant spool, great power for street use, and reliable based on what I've heard from owners.
-350z (turbo)
-GTO (turbo)
-vette (turbo)
-E46 M3
-EVO X MR (Tran deep dish pan cooler)
Now we have had complaints about our bushing as well, used in the billet engine mount. Added vibration and rigidness to the already ridged s2k chassis. But I believe that this issue could be solved by using a different poly stiffness. Something on the lines of a 60a or 55a. Again something we are looking into. Although I work for the company so my opinion is slightly biased. I believe what we have created for the S2k market is: one of the more complete turbo kits, very reliable with a very usable power band.
Happy New Years Drew. R
12-28-2012, 11:00 AM
#23
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Now we have had complaints about our bushing as well, used in the billet engine mount. Added vibration and rigidness to the already ridged s2k chassis. But I believe that this issue could be solved by using a different poly stiffness. Something on the lines of a 60a or 55a. Again something we are looking into.
I've also seen others have sagging issues after some time with 60A (I believe it was dsscd "Scott" that had posted these issues with pictures) not sure what was the placement of his turbo.
IMO, unless there's a heat shield and significant space (at least 2 inches) between turbo and poly, I don't think anything softer than a 70A is a good idea.
I do appreciate the attention to known issues though
12-28-2012, 12:37 PM
#24
Former Sponsor
Originally Posted by Ptuning' timestamp='1356722144' post='22234265
Now we have had complaints about our bushing as well, used in the billet engine mount. Added vibration and rigidness to the already ridged s2k chassis. But I believe that this issue could be solved by using a different poly stiffness. Something on the lines of a 60a or 55a. Again something we are looking into.
I've also seen others have sagging issues after some time with 60A (I believe it was dsscd "Scott" that had posted these issues with pictures) not sure what was the placement of his turbo.
IMO, unless there's a heat shield and significant space (at least 2 inches) between turbo and poly, I don't think anything softer than a 70A is a good idea.
I do appreciate the attention to known issues though
12-28-2012, 01:48 PM
#25
I would say cost is the biggest reason people don't use 321 thin wall tubing.
It is 3-5 times more than equivalent 304 sch pipe.
Then you can add a $200 slip fit collector on to that as well.
About the 1.25" sch pipe....I bought some to try out a small runner manifold, but I don't know if I'm going to use it or not. The head ports are very large compared to the i.d. of the pipe (~1.44"). Best way I can think of is to transition it down from 1.5 sch pipe over an inch or so....would be a pain.
It is 3-5 times more than equivalent 304 sch pipe.
Then you can add a $200 slip fit collector on to that as well.
About the 1.25" sch pipe....I bought some to try out a small runner manifold, but I don't know if I'm going to use it or not. The head ports are very large compared to the i.d. of the pipe (~1.44"). Best way I can think of is to transition it down from 1.5 sch pipe over an inch or so....would be a pain.
12-28-2012, 03:04 PM
#27
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This is actually a great topic. Though we make a turbo kit that has been doing quite well for some time now, there are always ways to make things better.
The end answer to the big question is Cost. We could make a perfect turbo kit down to every detail, even have a custom oil pan made with built in oil return and baffle. Even the manifold would be built out of inconel. But in the end of the day you would have a lot of time and money invested to sell just a few. There are a lot of shops that have the ability to make a perfect turbo kit but most small capable shops don't have the resources to produce and keep in stock a super kick ass turbo kit. Our advise is make sure you purchase your turbo kit from a shop that has a history of racing their cars. Shops that race their cars tend to understand better than others.
In retrospect the perfect turbo kit is the kit that provides exactly what the customer wants. We are glad to have many happy S2K customers.
The end answer to the big question is Cost. We could make a perfect turbo kit down to every detail, even have a custom oil pan made with built in oil return and baffle. Even the manifold would be built out of inconel. But in the end of the day you would have a lot of time and money invested to sell just a few. There are a lot of shops that have the ability to make a perfect turbo kit but most small capable shops don't have the resources to produce and keep in stock a super kick ass turbo kit. Our advise is make sure you purchase your turbo kit from a shop that has a history of racing their cars. Shops that race their cars tend to understand better than others.
In retrospect the perfect turbo kit is the kit that provides exactly what the customer wants. We are glad to have many happy S2K customers.
12-29-2012, 10:38 AM
#28
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Consider this....when they developed the honda s2000, a bunch of highly intellegent engineers (with s) who assigned to build a perfect car.
That means, computer simulations, wind tunnel, suspension geometry, electrical engineers & mechanical engineers applied the proper configuration before
they release and sold it to the consumers. They have unlimited resources.
If I go back to your thread & question: "No one builds a proper turbo kit for the S2K .... prove me wrong!"
No one built an accurate turbo configuration system for s2000 because you are trying to re-engineer the s2000 over again with very limited resources.
It's just a matter of how much you can put to re-engineer, to sell & to profit to the project......the profit will eat it up quick.
Provide me with proper tools, unlimited resources & engineer and I will prove you wrong.
That means, computer simulations, wind tunnel, suspension geometry, electrical engineers & mechanical engineers applied the proper configuration before
they release and sold it to the consumers. They have unlimited resources.
If I go back to your thread & question: "No one builds a proper turbo kit for the S2K .... prove me wrong!"
No one built an accurate turbo configuration system for s2000 because you are trying to re-engineer the s2000 over again with very limited resources.
It's just a matter of how much you can put to re-engineer, to sell & to profit to the project......the profit will eat it up quick.
Provide me with proper tools, unlimited resources & engineer and I will prove you wrong.
12-30-2012, 08:15 AM
#29
Well... I work at LHT Performance so I may be a little biased 
. The proper turbo kit should be suited to what the buyer wants. We built a kit for my car based off the Greddy kit. It seems to be fairly close to what you describe in the beginning of the thread. It was built to get a great daily powerband while maintaining a trouble free car. Car gets full boost and peak tourque at 4000 rpms. Makes 320 whp and 220 ft/lbs.
Before I start posting pictures, I don't need people telling me what they think could be improved or what they would change. Of course things could be made to be more efficient or make more power, but that takes away from the reliability etc...
And please excuse the crappy pics
Kit was based off a Precision 34/31 Turbo. My only gripe with this is that it leaks a little from the seals. This seems to be a problem with the Precisions and they can't seem to give an answer as of why. I may upgrade to a Borg Warner or something similar shortly. Shorty manifold puts the turbo just above the mount and does not put off too much heat like most long length tubulars. -10 Drain was plumbed into the pan at the highest point(We have been doing drains to the pan for 15 years without a problem).Yes, the others may make more power, but don't forget I am going for reliability/longevity.
*snip*
Like I said, obviously this kit is not made for the person who wants max power. We have built many kits to accomodate that. The purpose of this specific kit was to have a street/occaisional track car that makes decent usable power and torque. Future plans are to build an exhaust as it is currently running the stock exhaust. Boost was set to 9 psi.
To sum it up, there is no such thing as a PERFECT kit. It all depends on what the person wants.
. The proper turbo kit should be suited to what the buyer wants. We built a kit for my car based off the Greddy kit. It seems to be fairly close to what you describe in the beginning of the thread. It was built to get a great daily powerband while maintaining a trouble free car. Car gets full boost and peak tourque at 4000 rpms. Makes 320 whp and 220 ft/lbs.Before I start posting pictures, I don't need people telling me what they think could be improved or what they would change. Of course things could be made to be more efficient or make more power, but that takes away from the reliability etc...
And please excuse the crappy pics
Kit was based off a Precision 34/31 Turbo. My only gripe with this is that it leaks a little from the seals. This seems to be a problem with the Precisions and they can't seem to give an answer as of why. I may upgrade to a Borg Warner or something similar shortly. Shorty manifold puts the turbo just above the mount and does not put off too much heat like most long length tubulars. -10 Drain was plumbed into the pan at the highest point(We have been doing drains to the pan for 15 years without a problem).Yes, the others may make more power, but don't forget I am going for reliability/longevity.
*snip*
Like I said, obviously this kit is not made for the person who wants max power. We have built many kits to accomodate that. The purpose of this specific kit was to have a street/occaisional track car that makes decent usable power and torque. Future plans are to build an exhaust as it is currently running the stock exhaust. Boost was set to 9 psi.
To sum it up, there is no such thing as a PERFECT kit. It all depends on what the person wants.
Impressive looking kit! I like kits that are designed to have the wastegate recirculate back into the downpipe, and don't need to accommodate a huge turbo. I'm of the opinion that a garrett t3/to4e turbo would be plenty big for my needs (and many others). The S housing on the compressor side makes things tighter (obviously), and having to design a kit w/ the requirement of fitting a larger S housing is one constraint that might limit a kit from putting the turbo in a more favorable position.
Does anyone make a kit designed to use a turbo with an internal wastegate? While the turbo might be more expensive, you can save money on a simpler designed manifold/downpipe configuration (since you don't need to accomodate the external wastegate). Reliability is #1 in my book these days, and a "simpler" setup definitely helps.
12-30-2012, 08:28 AM
#30
Consider this....when they developed the honda s2000, a bunch of highly intellegent engineers (with s) who assigned to build a perfect car.
That means, computer simulations, wind tunnel, suspension geometry, electrical engineers & mechanical engineers applied the proper configuration before
they release and sold it to the consumers. They have unlimited resources.
If I go back to your thread & question: "No one builds a proper turbo kit for the S2K .... prove me wrong!"
No one built an accurate turbo configuration system for s2000 because you are trying to re-engineer the s2000 over again with very limited resources.
It's just a matter of how much you can put to re-engineer, to sell & to profit to the project......the profit will eat it up quick.
Provide me with proper tools, unlimited resources & engineer and I will prove you wrong.
That means, computer simulations, wind tunnel, suspension geometry, electrical engineers & mechanical engineers applied the proper configuration before
they release and sold it to the consumers. They have unlimited resources.
If I go back to your thread & question: "No one builds a proper turbo kit for the S2K .... prove me wrong!"
No one built an accurate turbo configuration system for s2000 because you are trying to re-engineer the s2000 over again with very limited resources.
It's just a matter of how much you can put to re-engineer, to sell & to profit to the project......the profit will eat it up quick.
Provide me with proper tools, unlimited resources & engineer and I will prove you wrong.
I think you hit the nail right on the head.
I'm not sure what the OP was really getting at here.
Obviously, sacrifices are going to need to be made, when modifying a car this far away from stock.
There's no one "perfect" kit because everyone has their own ideas/objectives.
I would LOVE to see you guys put out a kit that can compete with the big boys, rather than stirring the pot, for what seems to be no reason?
Both Ptuning and Fullrace make incredibly good kits for this car. Yes each have their own sacrifices that need to be made here, but no wizard is going to show up with his wand and POOF trouble free 100K+ mile turbo setup. It's just not going to happen.