S2000 Forced Induction S2000 Turbocharging and S2000 supercharging, for that extra kick.

Oil burn on decel-- Need help!

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Old Mar 24, 2010 | 10:39 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by camuman,Mar 24 2010, 09:11 AM
maybe car is burning oil from leaky valves, guides, seats? leakdown test time!
Possibly, but the thing that has me about that is that the motor didn't smoke before the turbo. And just a few days after driving with the kit it has already started smoking. Day one of the car running was the only hard day of driving it due to having to datalog for Mase to get a good map for me. The next 2 weeks after that were rainy so the car wasn't driven hard and yet it was already smoking.

@ ramo:
The drain is not kinked, its a steel braided line to the girdle not the pan.
And it smokes comes to a stop from any type of driving.. not only hard driving.
The pcv isn't even hooked up. I dont have a hose to that, I've got 2 bungs off the vc to the catch tank instead..

I'm at work right now. Will check back to this later and answer anything i've missed.
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Old Mar 24, 2010 | 11:05 AM
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i would have to say with the given information, i would say the turbo is bad.....
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Old Mar 24, 2010 | 11:20 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by dsddcd,Mar 24 2010, 09:06 AM
I can tell you from experience that there are a few more scenario’s

(Very Common w/ Precision & Garret will surely get worse as Honeywell Assimilates them further)

As far as the crankcase ventilation is concerned I am going ask that you explain that b/c it makes no sense to me due to the following factors.

(1) The oil drain is sewer flow thus the center section is equalized to the pan
(2) The incoming oil pressure is much higher than the crank case pressure could ever be unless you were missing a piston.
First, to dispell anymore stupid Garrett/Honeywell/Quality internet garbage, Garrett has only assembled a few aftermarket turbos in the US (read, only some of the very large drag turbos that are custom sized to meet sanctioning body regulations). OEM assembly has not been in the US for at least a decade. Every aftermarket GT25-40 has been assembled outside of the US for a really long time.

Regarding crankcase ventilation, I know it can be hard to comprehend (I had my doubts too), but it is fact. Callaway had this issue on the Vette kits. They even used clear drain tubes to try to diagnoise the issue. No oil was backing up the tube, but they were still blowing oil out the turbo. Scavage pump installed, no issues. I got this information from a friend that does work for Garrett and consulted Callaway on the project (and I asked him about the quality talk).

Back to the G35 I mentioned before; like I said, they tried everything before finally adding the scavenge pump. Clear drain tubes to check, relocated oil drains higher up, measured crank case pressure, measured oil inlet pressure to the turbo (which was already at the low end due to their restrictors). No significant measurement of pressure, and no oil backing up the drain tube, yet they were blowing oil out the tail pipe. Scavenge pump installed, problem fixed.

When the turbos are spun up to 100k+ rpms, that oil in the bearing area turns into a pretty good froth. I can see how a relatively high crankcase pressure can push it out the center housing into the wheels.
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Old Mar 24, 2010 | 02:44 PM
  #14  
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And it smokes comes to a stop from any type of driving.. not only hard driving.
The pcv isn't even hooked up. I dont have a hose to that, I've got 2 bungs off the vc to the catch tank instead..
There is an ongoing debate about whether or not you need a PCV valve. Some race cars do not utilize a PCV system, they just put as many vents as possible on the valve cover. I always recommend to our customers to keep vacuum on the crank case during decel and operation in vacuum. Is there an easy way to put a PCV valve back on the valve cover to see if it clears up your issue?



(3) The turbo was not assembled correctly and the seal was not seated or twisted during the installation (Very Common w/ Precision & Garret will surely get worse as Honeywell Assimilates them further)
(4) The Supply Oil Pressure is too High
(5) The Supply Oil Flow rate is too High
According to the topic of this thread, it sounds like the OP is only seeing smoking during decel, which leads me to believe it is some sort of drain issue. There isn't much to the piston ring seal, but if it were somehow botched during the turbo assembly, the turbo would be smoking 100% of the time.


If the supply oil pressure or flow rate is too high that would mean generally you'd see a higher volume of oil coming out the bottom, which I would categorize as a drain issue. My cure for that is to run a larger diameter drain, but usually too much oil pressure doesn't seem to be an issue on S2000's so I would rule that one out. I would NEVER suggest to run an oil restrictor on a journal bearing turbo.

(2) The incoming oil pressure is much higher than the crank case pressure could ever be unless you were missing a piston.
Turbos drain by gravity only. The drain flow isn't under pressure like the feed is. Any bit of crank case pressure can impede its flow back into the pan.

Generally going to the girdle will help eliminate some of the crank windage going into the drain of the turbo which could contribute to oil backing up.

To the OP: To give yourself peace of mind, I'd start with a leak down test as I have mentioned before. Compression numbers can still be good while having a cracked piston, so a compression test wont' tell the entire story. I am not saying that is what your issue is, but ruling that issue out early on can save headaches later in trying to troubleshooting your issue.

I could be totally wrong and it very well could be the turbo, but as a turbo manufacturer myself I have seen it all. I have seen many turbos come through for rebuilds that had nothing wrong with them, only to have the same issue as soon as the customer put the turbo back on after it was freshly rebuilt.
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Old Mar 24, 2010 | 07:23 PM
  #15  
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I'll have time tomorrow after work to do a leak down test.
I just thought I'd start a thread and try to get opinions from others as well while I try to found the answer to my problem.
Will report back tomorrow evening with leak down results.

I could be wrong, but lets just say that perhaps by chance a piston is cracked and causing my issue.. Wouldn't the oil burn have happened during NA times before the turbo install?
For all I know it may have smoked since day one during the datalog pulls I made for Mase. I did those pulls at 10pm-1am so it was very dark.
After work the next day I was otw to a friends house and noticed my car puffing at a stop light.
This is my main reason for pointing at the turbo.
Not trying to argue at all that its not possible the motor its self is my issue, just a thought.

Also I may have been unclear when I said "decel" or "coming to a stop" as referring to when it does show puffs of oil. I did not know this till the other day, but a buddy of mine followed me on the highway and said that when I got off the throttle under regular driving he'd notice it smoke as well.
I doubt this information makes much difference, but I thought I'd share every bit of info I could so that it'd help to better rule things out.

Anyway.. leak down tomorrow. Lol
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Old Mar 25, 2010 | 08:11 AM
  #16  
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Andrew my setup does this as well, didn't notice until recently. I'm thinking its a lack of venting as well.
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Old Mar 25, 2010 | 10:10 AM
  #17  
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Might want to try a crank vent or a supra pcv .
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