Oil return line
Link to my thread. First pics are when I had the Greddy kit installed.
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/886...bo-oil-return/
fluids dont magically defy gravity last time I checked
its the way greddy designed the kit, it will be just fine
use logic, think about it its impossible for the oil to "back up" in the tube
show me one a SINGLE case of anyone even claiming this was an issue a link please good sirs.
its the way greddy designed the kit, it will be just fine
use logic, think about it its impossible for the oil to "back up" in the tube
show me one a SINGLE case of anyone even claiming this was an issue a link please good sirs.
So I guess the SINGLE case of someone claiming it's an issue is RIGHT ABOVE THIS POST where the guy mentions he had oil burning issues until he relocated it from the drain plug to the timing cover.
Not to mention the OP is having oil in the charge line too.... so that's TWO cases in just this particular thread alone.
Some things to ponder:
1) Oil generally does not exit the turbo as a liquid when the turbo is at speed. It's more akin to shaving cream or soda foam
2) The presure on the exhaust or intake side is not always greater than the crankcase, meaning the oil can be sucked back up the drain line if it is discharged below the liquid level- like during shifting: full throttle, high boost to no throttle, vacuum instanly in the intake. The crankcase can't vent that fast.
Because of these two facts, always run the line above the oil level, and always use much a larger size pipe/tube then the turbo inlet. This has been known and adopted since turbocharging was developed.
Can you get away by dumping it lower? sure. You may not run your turbo as hard/run low boost pressure which makes it not 'as required' or you may run a large drain line with higher oil flow... regardless, it may work, but it's far from the best practice.
Peace.
1) Oil generally does not exit the turbo as a liquid when the turbo is at speed. It's more akin to shaving cream or soda foam
2) The presure on the exhaust or intake side is not always greater than the crankcase, meaning the oil can be sucked back up the drain line if it is discharged below the liquid level- like during shifting: full throttle, high boost to no throttle, vacuum instanly in the intake. The crankcase can't vent that fast.
Because of these two facts, always run the line above the oil level, and always use much a larger size pipe/tube then the turbo inlet. This has been known and adopted since turbocharging was developed.
Can you get away by dumping it lower? sure. You may not run your turbo as hard/run low boost pressure which makes it not 'as required' or you may run a large drain line with higher oil flow... regardless, it may work, but it's far from the best practice.
Peace.
fluids dont magically defy gravity last time I checked
its the way greddy designed the kit, it will be just fine
use logic, think about it its impossible for the oil to "back up" in the tube
show me one a SINGLE case of anyone even claiming this was an issue a link please good sirs.
its the way greddy designed the kit, it will be just fine
use logic, think about it its impossible for the oil to "back up" in the tube
show me one a SINGLE case of anyone even claiming this was an issue a link please good sirs.
You do realize the F20/22c is positioned in a slanted manner toward the passenger side of the vehicle? Directly making the drain plug ALWAYS the lowest point of the oil pan. You cannot return turbocharger oil under the oil level in the pan, not only will it cause a backup from the simple effects from gravity, but wait till boost (positive crankcase pressure) is added to the oil pan, you are now trying to gravity return into a pressurized area making it even harder to return the already backed up oil. The girlde has become the *default* area to return, well under the oil level with no chance of backup, a better alternative has recently come up which is the front timing cover.
I recently expirienced a direct example of oil return backup on a friends F20 and a topmount manifold with a Borg Warner 88/75. the return was too low on the oil pan, and the line was so long it leveled out before going into the pan, causing a backup, on the dyno when pressure was added to the oil pan, smoke instantly was emmited from the exhaust and the cartridge and turbine housing were soaked with oil. The return was changed to the timing cover and line was shortened, and fluids magically defied gravity......
Originally Posted by speedjunky01' timestamp='1336715007' post='21688764
fluids dont magically defy gravity last time I checked
its the way greddy designed the kit, it will be just fine
use logic, think about it its impossible for the oil to "back up" in the tube
show me one a SINGLE case of anyone even claiming this was an issue a link please good sirs.
its the way greddy designed the kit, it will be just fine
use logic, think about it its impossible for the oil to "back up" in the tube
show me one a SINGLE case of anyone even claiming this was an issue a link please good sirs.
You do realize the F20/22c is positioned in a slanted manner toward the passenger side of the vehicle? Directly making the drain plug ALWAYS the lowest point of the oil pan. You cannot return turbocharger oil under the oil level in the pan, not only will it cause a backup from the simple effects from gravity, but wait till boost (positive crankcase pressure) is added to the oil pan, you are now trying to gravity return into a pressurized area making it even harder to return the already backed up oil. The girlde has become the *default* area to return, well under the oil level with no chance of backup, a better alternative has recently come up which is the front timing cover.
I recently expirienced a direct example of oil return backup on a friends F20 and a topmount manifold with a Borg Warner 88/75. the return was too low on the oil pan, and the line was so long it leveled out before going into the pan, causing a backup, on the dyno when pressure was added to the oil pan, smoke instantly was emmited from the exhaust and the cartridge and turbine housing were soaked with oil. The return was changed to the timing cover and line was shortened, and fluids magically defied gravity......
You do realize that EVERY oil drain plug is at the bottom right? Point is to drain ALL of the oil of course.

OK, done being a smart ass, I completely agree with everything you said and the last bit is good info and a THIRD case of this being an issue. Good stuff!
If I get a chance I'll upgrade to the timing cover, for now the oil pan has worked alright, I've had no issues but that doesn't mean it's done right.
fluids dont magically defy gravity last time I checked
its the way greddy designed the kit, it will be just fine
use logic, think about it its impossible for the oil to "back up" in the tube
show me one a SINGLE case of anyone even claiming this was an issue a link please good sirs.
its the way greddy designed the kit, it will be just fine
use logic, think about it its impossible for the oil to "back up" in the tube
show me one a SINGLE case of anyone even claiming this was an issue a link please good sirs.
There's THREE cases now and counting. Do we need to keep proving your wrong or is it enough at more than one?
it really cant......
the oil in the drain line will never go above the level of oil in the pan (so about 2-3" above the drain plug)
the only and I mean ONLY way for it to back up is if you use an obnoxiously sized feed line and it puts out more oil then the drain can keep up (this would also back up no matter where you put the return line)
or
the crank becomes so positively pressurized that the oil is pushed up the line. if it becomes that highly pressurized you probably no longer have piston rings
either way OP do as you wish listen to the guy who has no experience doing it this way an buys into the internet hype or the guy who has done it and will do it this way again with my Vortech kit.
the oil in the drain line will never go above the level of oil in the pan (so about 2-3" above the drain plug)
the only and I mean ONLY way for it to back up is if you use an obnoxiously sized feed line and it puts out more oil then the drain can keep up (this would also back up no matter where you put the return line)
or
the crank becomes so positively pressurized that the oil is pushed up the line. if it becomes that highly pressurized you probably no longer have piston rings

either way OP do as you wish listen to the guy who has no experience doing it this way an buys into the internet hype or the guy who has done it and will do it this way again with my Vortech kit.
Why not just do it the right way instead of the 1989 Mugen article way?
It become mildly pressurized without piston ring failure, how much pressure do you think is needed to hold up a little foamed oil in a narrow line that is only a few inches wrong? We can calculate it using the amount of fluid in the line per area. I figure all that foamed fluid weighs less than 1lbs and that means if the total area of the line was 1 inch then we'd need just 1 psi to hold it up, instead I bet the oil weighs less than a half or quarter pound even. Just something to think about I suppose.
Also, fluids defy gravity all the time in an engine, you should see the way fuel makes it from my gas tank up the lines to my engine, it's just crazy I tell ya!



