5000 miles on HHO setup
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I do have an efie, which takes care of the ecu issue of dumping more fuel to compensate for the extra O2 in the exhaust.
My original avg. mileage was 27 mpg. I drive all highway and I have high flow intake and exhaust. I do believe that extra mileage can be gained through adjusting driving habbits, but because I pretty much drive the same path to and from work every day, with the cruise control set, there really aren't any changes to be made. Being able to add my 20% HHO savings to an additional habbit changing savings of, in your opinion, 20%, would be a very frugal 40% savings.
Optima was the first battery I looked at, but because I run it way down and trickle it back up on a daily basis, I need a marine deep cycle battery (although I ended up with an airplane battery). Optima's deep cycle batteries are very expensive, over perform based on my needs, and weigh more than the one I have. My whole purpose of doing this is to save money.
This is to address the person who asked what HHO is. Once again, please don't give me any physics lessons, I've heard them all!
This is some basic info about the HHO system. Please note that I haven't invented any of this technology, I just make and use it. A company called water4gas conceived this particular device. They sell an e-book that explains how to make them, but they don't actually sell the devices. There are many such devices available on the market. This electrolyzer has the advantage of being very easy to install and maintain and is a great introductory fuel saving device. All of the parts have to be bought in bulk, so its not exactly feasible to invest the time and buy all of the stuff needed to make just one. These devices aren't patented because this technology has been public domain for over 100 YEARS.
The basic gist is this: A car's alternator produces current that is used to split distilled water (with an electrolyte such as baking soda or potassium hydroxide, aka ph up for fish tanks) into hydrogen and oxygen. (This is why I went with the solar cell) Both of elements are very reactive and don't like to be separated from other elements for very long, so they typically rejoin to either make h2 and o2 or they rejoin with each other to make water, or in this case, because its heated, steam. These three substances are called browns gas and are violently explosive and expansive when burned. Hydrogen burns at about 1000 times the speed of gasoline. The Brown's gas is pulled into the intake, just like the regular air the car breathes and is mixed with the gasoline when the valves open and pull the air mixture into the engine. The enriched air is then ignited and the gasoline as well as the h2 are oxidized by the oxygen (burned). At this same time, the steam, which has been pulled into the system, and functions very similarly to water methanol injected cars, is heated by the burn process and expands. This also adds to the efficiency of the burn process. Many people have issues with this system and its legitimacy but very few people if any will argue that water methanol injection, which has been tested and proven over decades, is a spoof. The two systems function very similarly. They both use a flammable fuel and water vapor to improve engine efficiency.
After this whole "burn" process, there is extra oxygen floating around in the system. This is pushed out by the valves and sent out the exhaust. When it passes by the oxygen sensor its electric charge is registered and sent to the cars computer. The computer sees this oxygen presence as the result of an inefficient burn, not a result of extra O2 being produced by the car, and sends more fuel to the injectors as an attempt to burn off the extra O2.
This is the downfall of the system as it relates to modern vehicles (post 1996 with OBD I or OBD II - on board diagnostic systems). To solve this problem, a device called an efie (electronic fuel injector enhancer) is installed between the O2 sensors and the computer to regulate the voltage I talked about earlier. Lets say the signal coming from an oxygen sensor and going to the computer constantly travels between 0 and 1 volt. It is supposed to hover around .45 volts but when the extra O2 is sensed, it gets pulled down a bit. This tells the ecu to add more fuel. The efie adds voltage to that signal between the O2 sensor and the ecu and pulls it back up to its normal operating range. This makes the ecu very happy, and therefore makes me very happy...at the pump.
More and more newer cars, especially Toyotas, have air fuel ratio sensors instead of oxygen sensors. I know this because my wife has a 4runner. What this means is that the signal coming from the afr sensors is more sensitive and is harder to manipulate. The O2 sensors are less sensitive and more able to be "tuned" if you will. The best way to find this out is to contact a dealership, or shop, that can look up a wiring diagram for a specific car and tell whether the oxygen sensor(s) are actually called oxygen sensors or air/fuel ratio sensors.
I'm not electronically gifted and therefore I have to order the efies fully assembled from a friend who has the gift, so although I do have several of both the single and dual setups right now, sometimes he does get back ordered and I have to wait until he can catch up, which can delay an order. He's first come first serve and he said his orders have doubled every month for the past six months.
I don't really think its fair to the average consumer that to see any significant savings at the pump, we are expected go out and purchase a new vehicle. The cost savings of such a move is spread out over many years and therefore isn't very feasible as a means of "saving" money or fuel. The amount of fossil fuel used to make any vehicle is huge. These small devices can be retrofit to any vehicle and their carbon footprint is almost non-existent in comparison to any car on the road today, no matter how green. This hho electrolyzer gives anyone the opportunity to save fuel and in my opinion. It's really not possible to give a concrete savings number and if you find someone online with a similar device who guarantees a savings percentage, you should be skeptical of the claim.
It needs to be said too that car companies have lobbied to make laws that prohibit the alteration of any signals going to or coming from any cars ecu. This is to keep the cars fuel economy, as well as emissions, in their control. These devices can be used in any "off road" applications you see fit though so take this information as informative "advice" please. Bully Dog as well as dozens of other companies sell "off road" devices that alter these same signals and have done so for many years.
Hopefully, if these devices become popular enough, the government will overturn the laws that limit the supposed "applicable" uses of this technology.
In the past eight years U.S. oil companies have made over 500,000,000,000, that's billion, dollars in PROFFITS. If we can send a man to the moon for a fraction of that, we can surly come up with a car that can easily capitalize on the latent energy available in water, the most abundant natural resource on earth.
My original avg. mileage was 27 mpg. I drive all highway and I have high flow intake and exhaust. I do believe that extra mileage can be gained through adjusting driving habbits, but because I pretty much drive the same path to and from work every day, with the cruise control set, there really aren't any changes to be made. Being able to add my 20% HHO savings to an additional habbit changing savings of, in your opinion, 20%, would be a very frugal 40% savings.
Optima was the first battery I looked at, but because I run it way down and trickle it back up on a daily basis, I need a marine deep cycle battery (although I ended up with an airplane battery). Optima's deep cycle batteries are very expensive, over perform based on my needs, and weigh more than the one I have. My whole purpose of doing this is to save money.
This is to address the person who asked what HHO is. Once again, please don't give me any physics lessons, I've heard them all!
This is some basic info about the HHO system. Please note that I haven't invented any of this technology, I just make and use it. A company called water4gas conceived this particular device. They sell an e-book that explains how to make them, but they don't actually sell the devices. There are many such devices available on the market. This electrolyzer has the advantage of being very easy to install and maintain and is a great introductory fuel saving device. All of the parts have to be bought in bulk, so its not exactly feasible to invest the time and buy all of the stuff needed to make just one. These devices aren't patented because this technology has been public domain for over 100 YEARS.
The basic gist is this: A car's alternator produces current that is used to split distilled water (with an electrolyte such as baking soda or potassium hydroxide, aka ph up for fish tanks) into hydrogen and oxygen. (This is why I went with the solar cell) Both of elements are very reactive and don't like to be separated from other elements for very long, so they typically rejoin to either make h2 and o2 or they rejoin with each other to make water, or in this case, because its heated, steam. These three substances are called browns gas and are violently explosive and expansive when burned. Hydrogen burns at about 1000 times the speed of gasoline. The Brown's gas is pulled into the intake, just like the regular air the car breathes and is mixed with the gasoline when the valves open and pull the air mixture into the engine. The enriched air is then ignited and the gasoline as well as the h2 are oxidized by the oxygen (burned). At this same time, the steam, which has been pulled into the system, and functions very similarly to water methanol injected cars, is heated by the burn process and expands. This also adds to the efficiency of the burn process. Many people have issues with this system and its legitimacy but very few people if any will argue that water methanol injection, which has been tested and proven over decades, is a spoof. The two systems function very similarly. They both use a flammable fuel and water vapor to improve engine efficiency.
After this whole "burn" process, there is extra oxygen floating around in the system. This is pushed out by the valves and sent out the exhaust. When it passes by the oxygen sensor its electric charge is registered and sent to the cars computer. The computer sees this oxygen presence as the result of an inefficient burn, not a result of extra O2 being produced by the car, and sends more fuel to the injectors as an attempt to burn off the extra O2.
This is the downfall of the system as it relates to modern vehicles (post 1996 with OBD I or OBD II - on board diagnostic systems). To solve this problem, a device called an efie (electronic fuel injector enhancer) is installed between the O2 sensors and the computer to regulate the voltage I talked about earlier. Lets say the signal coming from an oxygen sensor and going to the computer constantly travels between 0 and 1 volt. It is supposed to hover around .45 volts but when the extra O2 is sensed, it gets pulled down a bit. This tells the ecu to add more fuel. The efie adds voltage to that signal between the O2 sensor and the ecu and pulls it back up to its normal operating range. This makes the ecu very happy, and therefore makes me very happy...at the pump.
More and more newer cars, especially Toyotas, have air fuel ratio sensors instead of oxygen sensors. I know this because my wife has a 4runner. What this means is that the signal coming from the afr sensors is more sensitive and is harder to manipulate. The O2 sensors are less sensitive and more able to be "tuned" if you will. The best way to find this out is to contact a dealership, or shop, that can look up a wiring diagram for a specific car and tell whether the oxygen sensor(s) are actually called oxygen sensors or air/fuel ratio sensors.
I'm not electronically gifted and therefore I have to order the efies fully assembled from a friend who has the gift, so although I do have several of both the single and dual setups right now, sometimes he does get back ordered and I have to wait until he can catch up, which can delay an order. He's first come first serve and he said his orders have doubled every month for the past six months.
I don't really think its fair to the average consumer that to see any significant savings at the pump, we are expected go out and purchase a new vehicle. The cost savings of such a move is spread out over many years and therefore isn't very feasible as a means of "saving" money or fuel. The amount of fossil fuel used to make any vehicle is huge. These small devices can be retrofit to any vehicle and their carbon footprint is almost non-existent in comparison to any car on the road today, no matter how green. This hho electrolyzer gives anyone the opportunity to save fuel and in my opinion. It's really not possible to give a concrete savings number and if you find someone online with a similar device who guarantees a savings percentage, you should be skeptical of the claim.
It needs to be said too that car companies have lobbied to make laws that prohibit the alteration of any signals going to or coming from any cars ecu. This is to keep the cars fuel economy, as well as emissions, in their control. These devices can be used in any "off road" applications you see fit though so take this information as informative "advice" please. Bully Dog as well as dozens of other companies sell "off road" devices that alter these same signals and have done so for many years.
Hopefully, if these devices become popular enough, the government will overturn the laws that limit the supposed "applicable" uses of this technology.
In the past eight years U.S. oil companies have made over 500,000,000,000, that's billion, dollars in PROFFITS. If we can send a man to the moon for a fraction of that, we can surly come up with a car that can easily capitalize on the latent energy available in water, the most abundant natural resource on earth.
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What I meant was, replace your main car battery with an optima yellow top. This way, you don't have the added weight of a second battery in your trunk..........aircraft batteries aren't light, and marine batteries are heavier! haha.
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Originally Posted by chimmike,Jul 3 2008, 12:32 PM
What I meant was, replace your main car battery with an optima yellow top. This way, you don't have the added weight of a second battery in your trunk..........aircraft batteries aren't light, and marine batteries are heavier! haha.
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I see the laws of thermodynamics are no match for the placebo effect!
"electrification"? LOL
An incredibly expensive high end state of the art solar panel that is ~20x40 inches can approach almost 40% efficiency, yielding up to 24W at full capacity with a full sun, zero shade, zero cloud blasting on it. Even if electrolysis of water were 100% efficient (which it isn't), and combustion of Hydrogen gas were 100% efficient (which it isn't), you're producing in ideal conditions 0.032 horsepower from your setup.
Of course, you could just take a shit before going for a drive and save more gas from the weight reduction.
"electrification"? LOL
An incredibly expensive high end state of the art solar panel that is ~20x40 inches can approach almost 40% efficiency, yielding up to 24W at full capacity with a full sun, zero shade, zero cloud blasting on it. Even if electrolysis of water were 100% efficient (which it isn't), and combustion of Hydrogen gas were 100% efficient (which it isn't), you're producing in ideal conditions 0.032 horsepower from your setup.
Of course, you could just take a shit before going for a drive and save more gas from the weight reduction.
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Way to straighten me out Kremlin! I'll probably loose sleep tonight!
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/electrification "LOL"
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/electrification "LOL"
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