Hey!

I have a 2001 nearly all stock except the wheels and tires. I will have 245/40-17 conti DWS tires on a 9 in wheel. The car is daily driven and has a “tramlining” feel as I have a square set up. I don’t mind it so much as I do the odd tire wear. The alignment is presumably OEM as the suspension is all original. I plan on having new tires put on tomorrow (I currently have sumitomo and am getting DWSs) and having an alignment done shortly after.. i will list the specs I plan to run below and I am asking if they seem absurd or if anybody with a similar alignment can chime in..
(all listed specs is a compilation of reading on the forum and what I currently feel as I driver.. I do not know current alignment specs)

front:
caster 6°
camber -1°
toe 0°

rear:
camber -1.5°
toe .2° in

whats your opinion? Should I have more negative camber? Toe not aggressive enough? Please chime in.

Thank you!
-Tony

 

Bruv, you're putting all season tires on. What's the point of making the alignment MORE agressive?

Alignment specs u want seem fine. Make sure your front subframe is centered properly if you want 6 deg caster with -1 camber.

I wouldn't use all season tires, however. I would buy reinforced sidewall max performance summer tires to match the original design intent.

Do you actually plan to drive this in snow? Why not just buy snow tires for that?

 

Some high performance all-seasons actually perform really well. Not as good as the top of the line performance summer tires but good enough for SAFE driving around the streets. No idea how these DWs perform. Besides, I think he's trying to clear the fenders and not necessarily for performance (?)

As for the alignment, correct me if I'm wrong, but AP1 owners tend to have the toe out a bit to account for the tendency to toe-in during bump travel leading to snap oversteer.

 

Hello Tony,

Could not not agree more with B serous! DWS, dry, wet, snow. They are ok, I have had them and wouldn’t get them for S. If you want Conti, my money is with the Extreme Contact, hands down.

Best to you!

 

I apologize, I don’t know where I got DWS from lol I’m getting continental EXTREME CONTACT. I live in the southeast and though I need to get around in all conditions, i don’t need a snow tire.

And definitely looking for an alignment that conserves tires, but can handle the occasional spirited driving (safely of course).

and the only reason I’m looking at doing 0° toe on the front is to minimize the tramlining effect... however, what you say does make sense, and obviously I’d prefer to reduce snap oversteer.. I’ve experienced it quite a bit and don’t enjoy it lol... and if I understand correctly, having a conservative toe in (less than .3° in the rear is what prevents over steer. Correct me if I’m wrong though..

being as ive corrected the type of tire I’m getting, would anybody disagree with my expected alignment specs?

Again, just trying to learn as I go.. I know tires and alignment are key to good performance. However, I’m still daily driving this car and look into tire life too

Thanks for your input

 

Why are you going square? If not for grip? What for?

 

I purchased the car with a square set up.. and to be honest, I’ve driven staggered oem, and I personally prefer the square

i like the added front grip, feels more balanced to me oddly..

 

Eh....I really don't think snap oversteer is a thing. Its just something that happens to RWD cars when you lift off the throttle mid-corner. Oversteer after an apex just means you put down too much power/torque too soon.


Toe IN adds stability in a straight line. Makes the car less darty on the highway. Makes it more stable over sudden small steering inputs, etc.

But it makes the car less willing to depart from a straight line. Once it does so, in a sustained corner....the outer tire is acting like a rubber band, trying to make it go back in a straight line.

When you lift or brake mid-corner, the outer tire straightens out. All of a sudden, that tire isn't pulling the rear of the car back inboard to go straight as much. The car's weight also shifts forward...and you start to over steer. If you don't catch that moment of transition, you'll start to spin. The S2000 has a small tolerance for that. The shift is sudden.

So when you have too much rear toe in...the car will generally understeer MORE...but the transition from understeer to oversteer is more sudden.

That's the philosophy on running a "lean" toe spec (closer to zero...but with a small amount of toe in).

That doesn't change the toe (bumpsteer) curve since that delta will still happen. As the suspension compresses and/or camber falls, toe will go up at a set rate (and vise versa). But you start off with less and end up with less.

The S2000 has other factors that make it more prone to losing grip via oversteer.

So...leaning out the toe to some amount will help...but the best cure is to just learn how to drive it properly.

To prevent twitchiness/dartyness and to get that good solid street car feel:
I would suggest getting a tire with a 2 ply sidewall. The soft sidewall Conti's have impressive grip. But street cars are less about ultimate grip and more about feel. When you drive the car in a fun way on the street, predictability combined with that feel is what makes a car fun to drive.

Any good MP or UHP summer tire with a 2 ply sidewall and good grip will feel better and be more predictible than a soft sidewall tire with a ton of grip.

Firestone Firehawk Indy's are good. Bridgestone S04 or the new Bridgestone MP tire would probably be my front runner.

 

I really appreciate the reply! Good information. Definitely helps understand the characteristics of the s2000. I’m familiar with how suspension components work and interact and their results, but seeing it explained this way helps. Thank you.

I definitely feel more confident in my expected alignment specs.. though conservative, it seems they’ll provide good feel, adequate grip, and still conserve tires providing I can fit my 245 without rubbing. I may have to go a bit more aggressive camber as my fenders are not rolled.. part of the reason why I haven’t lowered my car.. and I don’t plan to. Engineers know what they’re doing at Honda. Hence why my specs are similar to OEM, but hopefully better suited for a square tire set up. (I know, ironic I praised engineers and here I am running different wheels and tires lol) Eh, it’s car life.. live and love I guess.

 

On my '06 I'm running 235/45-17(up front) on stock wheels which is 0.6" taller than your 245/40-17 tires with 1.25 neg. camber and mine don't rub. I think I could go 245/40-17 no problem if I could find a wheel I liked but since this size works for me I stayed with this size tire now for over 100k miles.

Rod