going with itb's
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From: Scottsdale, AZ
If I were you i'd focus on a soild I/H/TP/E and see where that puts you maybe a VAFC to squeeze a little more performance out of that, but as for ITB's there touchy and very expensive for starts.
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted by SCCS2K,Aug 8 2008, 07:25 AM
Negate any gains? Not true, at least not usually. Several HP in most cases, though I do know of a guy on here with a rather drastic drop in power with filters. YMMV, I suppose.
However, it's important to point out - the big thing ITBs do is change the PERSONALITY of the engine, not simply add more maximum power (though they do tend to add a boatload of midrange). Even if it ITBs netted me zero extra HP, I'd still be thrilled with them, the throttle response is un-f'in-believable, and the car feels 10 times livelier and raw.
t's not always about max HP gains for some of us.
However, it's important to point out - the big thing ITBs do is change the PERSONALITY of the engine, not simply add more maximum power (though they do tend to add a boatload of midrange). Even if it ITBs netted me zero extra HP, I'd still be thrilled with them, the throttle response is un-f'in-believable, and the car feels 10 times livelier and raw.
t's not always about max HP gains for some of us.
I didn't mention anything about max hp gain.but regarding filter, I researched that they do negate gains usually- not trying to start a debate. I'm hardly a an expert on the topic.
I believe the problem stems from the fact that a "plenum" can't be made to attach to the ITBs because of the lack of space. Therefore the filters/socks have to be attached directly to the airhorns, which obviously creates a huge hindrance due to the way an airhorn is supposed to work.
The tempura strainers that Alejo uses would be the best compromise.
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From: LBC
Originally Posted by modMonkey,Aug 8 2008, 03:06 PM
I didn't mention anything about max hp gain. What type of gain were you referring to then?If you were saying that simply putting some filters on a set ITBs will return a car to feeling like stock, then that's definitely wrong.
"Negate any gains" to me would either refer to reverting to stock HP, or reverting to stock "seat of the pants" feel.
So if you're not referring to HP gains, I can assure you that an ITB'd car will still feel ITB'd with filters...
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted by SCCS2K,Aug 8 2008, 02:18 PM
What type of gain were you referring to then?another thing for the OP to consider is that ITBs are not consistent, they change with the weather. At the very least have a cold and warm weather tune. Better yet, learn to play with the ems yourself.
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From: LBC
Originally Posted by modMonkey,Aug 8 2008, 03:22 PM
My impression was that any significant gains to be had from ITBs was all in the midrange.
With a proper tune and setup, ITBs will always be beneficial, though restrictive filters can certainly bring PEAK HP close to stock (or whatever it was before). Midrange would likely still be way higher, and the response isn't terribly affected either.
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted by SCCS2K,Aug 8 2008, 02:30 PM
Ah, gotcha. That's usually the case, but it can still depend. Factors like the tune, diameter of the TBs and the lengths of the horns can drastically change where and how they make their power.
With a proper tune and setup, ITBs will always be beneficial, though restrictive filters can certainly bring PEAK HP close to stock (or whatever it was before). Midrange would likely still be way higher, and the response isn't terribly affected either.
With a proper tune and setup, ITBs will always be beneficial, though restrictive filters can certainly bring PEAK HP close to stock (or whatever it was before). Midrange would likely still be way higher, and the response isn't terribly affected either.
- Also, it might be just a case with Toda ITBs, but medicalstudent stated that he lost 40hp by adding mesh-type filters. I'm guessing thats from peak hp. But that is based on what he posted. A number of factors could have contributed to this (like tune as SCCS2K mentioned)Also, for the OP, this dyno graph might help. WildcardTRD has the same setup you are considering with the proper supporting mods.
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From: LBC
Originally Posted by modMonkey,Aug 8 2008, 03:22 PM
another thing for the OP to consider is that ITBs are not consistent, they change with the weather. At the very least have a cold and warm weather tune. Better yet, learn to play with the ems yourself.
Switching to an EMS, you'll lose that stock "day-in-day-out regardless of the weather" smoothness and reliability.
Some of the people here have a different map for each season. Here in SoCal, it's not really an issue.
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Originally Posted by SCCS2K,Aug 8 2008, 02:33 PM
That's a good point, OP should take note, depending on his location.
Switching to an EMS, you'll lose that stock "day-in-day-out regardless of the weather" smoothness and reliability.
Some of the people here have a different map for each season. Here in SoCal, it's not really an issue.
Switching to an EMS, you'll lose that stock "day-in-day-out regardless of the weather" smoothness and reliability.
Some of the people here have a different map for each season. Here in SoCal, it's not really an issue.