me suscribed

 

I hope Carter will post a response if not in a national magazine at least via email, snail mail, or a post in this thread. I understand he is a busy man, and that some very respected enthusiasts have vouched for his character, but I believe if he is going to be making his personal convictions present in a national magazine he needs to be making some changes.

Like Ive said before, I understand his hands are somewhat tied on the ad side of the magazine. But why not take that sponsorship money and put it towards awareness. Pushing away from cars with parts from companies who are notorious style forgerers.

I originally had a paragraph devoted to the manufacturing of OEM copies in carbon fiber or other materials. OEM hoods, doors, wider front fenders etc are not what is killing the scene. If these companies can offer a lightweight and cost efficient upgrade to our OEM parts so much the better. I for one will not speak against that. It is when they copy the designs from others that really pisses me off.

I find myself at a cross roads when I get ready to purchase big ticket items such as a Mugen hardtop. How many variations of a hardtop can there be? At least how many that can compliment the body styling of the S2000. I would be interested to see how much profit is really made on a Mugen hardtop. At $5600 CF and $2800 FRP neither seems to be much of a deal. It would seem a chunk of that is a name brand tax.

This is were I might loose a lot of you... here it goes.
A 1990-1998 Mazda Miata OEM CF hardtop from VIS is $3000. Given that the Miata is smaller than the S2000, but I wonder if it is $2600 worth of CF. Now im almost positive most people have no moral conflict when a company puts out a replica OEM in carbon fiber. I mean that is essentially what Powerhouse Amuse did. I believe the roof line is shorter but is that change warrant a $7,917 price tag? Did that much design and testing go into it? Are the materials that much better than what PWJDM can get there hands on? Im not sure... but you can see where my morals might be in conflict with my wallet. I wonder what a CF under tray like the PWJDM one would cost from J's, from ASM, from Amuse.

To me the problem just doesnt rest with the phonies out there. It is the illusion of vastly superior quality and name brand exclusivity that jack up the prices, making it difficult for many to support. I understand many tuners are active participants in various racing endeavors and as such their products need to fund such passions, I dont see PWJDM charging a $2000 premium on its parts. I dont see APR's quality wide body kit ($3400) any less innovative or functional than the $6,300 Amuse. These are numbers and discrepancies we need to take seriously.

 

style is key here. While the Spoon Mooncraft hardtop may not be in line with all of our tastes or functionality (loss of easy trunk access) it is functionally more aerodynamic than the mugen top.

From BulletProof:
The infamous "Mooncraft" hardtop as seen on various S2000 race cars. Production version is shown on all white S2000 photos. A roll cage is not required for installation.

As tested on the circuit, this hardtop allowed for faster straight line speeds than the test car when comparing this to the Mugen hardtop. It is the most aerodynamic hardtop on the market!

Weight: Slightly under 30lbs!

At $3,845 the required design and testing needed to go into this product would seem 10x greater than what went into the Amuse or Mugen offering.
A piece that much larger would seem to be heavier but remarkably the exclusive company Spoon was able to beat the Mugen/ Amuse in all categories: cost, weight, and aerodynamic efficiency. All categories except style. While some love the Spoon hardtop, many others dont share the same sentiments. I know there is some supply and demand economics guru out there that is going to set me strait, but this just seems like highway robbery. Artificially inflated prices like these need to be checked.

Step in design houses like PWJDM and APR with new and innovative designs. But how many times can you re-invent the wheel err hardtop. APR already utilizes the best in the market on its own vehicle. why would it dump more money into developing a differently designed hardtop, that is already, in my opinion financially feasible? The Mugen and Amuse are able to give all the design and lightweight features, when compared against the OEM, that most turners would want. Both are classic interpretations of the hardtop. With a radical and functional design from Spoon, all bases are really covered. Except the price and style offering. A huge forgery item on this board is in fact the Mugen hardtop. What else can be done. Put the Mugen within 500$ of a seibon, vis etc hardtop and you have yourself a compelling reason to buy an authentic Mugen Hardtop.

 

i think i lost everyone...

 

great letter dude!

It has always been a thing with me to buy authentic parts for my vehicle... and it's not down to if it is authentic or not, because the majority of friends etc aren't into cars like i am, so they can't tell the difference...

It is purely down to the simple fact "you get what you pay for" and everything i have bought 'KW suspension' has lasted perfectly and still performing 60k down the road.

 

Wow nice!

Lets see whats up

 

I know Ben@Bulletproof is busy with the recent passing of Mr Tanabe, but if any vendors (Tommy@Gotuning, AJR, J's Racing)in here would like to shed some light, or correct my thinking on the above posts... I think it would be very productive to this conversation.

I would especially like to hear from Steve@PWJDM considering his long experience with CF. I am also not opposed to getting a rep from Shine to provide a compelling counter argument, not likely but it would be nice.

With the resources and presence Autobacs (ASM) has in the US I am still bewildered with their astronomical aero parts prices. Is the cost for R&D and manufacturer really that high?

 

no responses?

 

take your time. this thread isnt going anywhere.

 

I'd like all the US based people to know that there's till a good quantity of UK based enthusiasts whom regularly pay attention to all of what's going on and care deeply about the issues at heart.

Mike, cheers for replying on behalf of bulletproof and PWJDM cheers for chipping in.

I'd like to personally voice support for the quality products you all work so hard to support.

They're welcome, supported and enthused after by the UK as positively on our soil as they are on yours.

C-J Watson
S2K United Kingdom.