N/A EMS Timing
09-22-2009, 10:32 PM
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N/A EMS Timing
Around how many degrees of timing are you guys running when in the higher rpms?
All I could find is 1 guy on Honda-Tech saying 45degrees which is about what I'm running and still tuning.
All I could find is 1 guy on Honda-Tech saying 45degrees which is about what I'm running and still tuning.
09-23-2009, 09:42 AM
#4
here is my honest opinion, and what i would do if i was you.
bring the WOT timing map back down to the aem base map, IE around 24 degrees timing at 0 load. tweak fuel to 12.5 AFR if you have a wideband at WOT.
rent dyno time, and first find your magic AFR. mine NA was 12.3 at the header collector wideband, not tail sniffer, as they can read very different. once you nail that down, start adding .3-.5 degrees of timing and see if you are even gaining power. you might not hear knock, nor see serious voltage spikes in knock sensor, but its prolly there, and your def not gaining power wiht that kinda timing.
i think NA i was 27 or 28 at 8500 rpm ap2 car WOT 0 load part of the map. when i say 0 load, i mean 0 psi.
be very careful, too much timing can cook a motor
bring the WOT timing map back down to the aem base map, IE around 24 degrees timing at 0 load. tweak fuel to 12.5 AFR if you have a wideband at WOT.
rent dyno time, and first find your magic AFR. mine NA was 12.3 at the header collector wideband, not tail sniffer, as they can read very different. once you nail that down, start adding .3-.5 degrees of timing and see if you are even gaining power. you might not hear knock, nor see serious voltage spikes in knock sensor, but its prolly there, and your def not gaining power wiht that kinda timing.
i think NA i was 27 or 28 at 8500 rpm ap2 car WOT 0 load part of the map. when i say 0 load, i mean 0 psi.
be very careful, too much timing can cook a motor
09-23-2009, 10:01 AM
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I have my AFR dialed in around 12.7-12.8 for WOT to redline with an Innovate LM-1 that I'm borrowing. I had a bung welded into my test pipe for the wideband o2 sensor. I'll have to adjust that more then. I was thinking I should richen that up a little.
Suprisingly I took my car to a tuner to ask for a quote. He suggested I try to tune it myself since its NA and not far from stock (besides the nitrous for later tuning). He said it'd save me a lot of money so I figured I'd give it a shot.
I might just have to rent dyno time rather than trying to guess and have it boom. Thanks for your help camuman.
Suprisingly I took my car to a tuner to ask for a quote. He suggested I try to tune it myself since its NA and not far from stock (besides the nitrous for later tuning). He said it'd save me a lot of money so I figured I'd give it a shot.
I might just have to rent dyno time rather than trying to guess and have it boom. Thanks for your help camuman.
09-23-2009, 12:34 PM
#6
the thing i learned, which i learned much like u, poking around asking people stuff, and i had a friend that helped me too.
you dont know 100% whats going on unless your on a dyno. i can change my WOT AFR from 12.3 to 12.5 and on the dyno see myself lose 5-8whp across the whole rev band, but on the street, butt dyno might not notice that, actualy, most likely wont notice it. this was when i was na of course.
and timing, oh god, you def cant dial in timing with out a dyno. you will see a point where extra timing doesnt mean extra power, and might even mean less power.
now some tuners have microphones so they can hear knock. you see, the knock sensor on our car picks up a lot of vibration, and that might be read as knock and it not be knock. and it also might not pick up faint detonation. soo, its not really that acurate.
bottom line, call local dynos, and see how much per hour for you to use it and tune your own car. its way less then paying a tuner to tune it, but you might take longer to tune it, which could even out the investment but i digress.
what would be ideal, is if you could use a tuner that didnt charge an arm and a leg, and was willing to talk to you about the tune as they did it. so later on, if you pick up new mods, you might be inclined to try and tune little things later.
anyways, i leave you with this, dyno time should be about 50-75 bucks an hour. a good tuner can get your car dialed in and running like a champ in about two hours.
i read somewhere else a guy paid 700 bucks for a tune. i hope to god there was more involved then just a tune, like maybe installing the aem ems and other stuff. but i didnt ask.
700 for an NA tune is way too much money. if i was asked how much i think it should be, i would say about 350-450 including dyno time. thats my opinion, but i feel its a good estimate.
goood luck with your project, i like my aem a lot. i have most of the car running the way i want now, it just takes time. and having my car tuned once really helped me understand how to use the software, what things should be ballpark wise, and how to get stuff tweaked.
PS, logging is your friend
you dont know 100% whats going on unless your on a dyno. i can change my WOT AFR from 12.3 to 12.5 and on the dyno see myself lose 5-8whp across the whole rev band, but on the street, butt dyno might not notice that, actualy, most likely wont notice it. this was when i was na of course.
and timing, oh god, you def cant dial in timing with out a dyno. you will see a point where extra timing doesnt mean extra power, and might even mean less power.
now some tuners have microphones so they can hear knock. you see, the knock sensor on our car picks up a lot of vibration, and that might be read as knock and it not be knock. and it also might not pick up faint detonation. soo, its not really that acurate.
bottom line, call local dynos, and see how much per hour for you to use it and tune your own car. its way less then paying a tuner to tune it, but you might take longer to tune it, which could even out the investment but i digress.
what would be ideal, is if you could use a tuner that didnt charge an arm and a leg, and was willing to talk to you about the tune as they did it. so later on, if you pick up new mods, you might be inclined to try and tune little things later.
anyways, i leave you with this, dyno time should be about 50-75 bucks an hour. a good tuner can get your car dialed in and running like a champ in about two hours.
i read somewhere else a guy paid 700 bucks for a tune. i hope to god there was more involved then just a tune, like maybe installing the aem ems and other stuff. but i didnt ask.
700 for an NA tune is way too much money. if i was asked how much i think it should be, i would say about 350-450 including dyno time. thats my opinion, but i feel its a good estimate.
goood luck with your project, i like my aem a lot. i have most of the car running the way i want now, it just takes time. and having my car tuned once really helped me understand how to use the software, what things should be ballpark wise, and how to get stuff tweaked.
PS, logging is your friend
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09-23-2009, 07:32 PM
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I have everything but an intake on my car and my car wouldn't accept any timing, we literally thought that something was wrong or it wasn't hooked up correctly but its working and the stock timing is perfect, for my application of course
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