NA build help
09-05-2013, 07:53 PM
#11
That, and most of the Subaru people are weird. I can't stand the local, extremely naive Subaru community.
09-05-2013, 10:10 PM
#13
You can get everything you need for under 250..
New injectors, clips, 11mm hats, $246
http://www.xenocron.com/injectors-rd...fec59915f4ee1b
New injectors, clips, 11mm hats, $246
http://www.xenocron.com/injectors-rd...fec59915f4ee1b
I've seen stock WRX/STi injectors given away a few times as well.Although, per that link, when you combine the 4 injectors with the kit to make it work (clips, adapters, etc), it's $288. I could have reused the stock seals, but since I have a buddy that works at Honda, I paid like $4 for all new upper and lower seals..
I'd almost rather put an adjustable regulator in to gain that extra 50cc for less.
09-06-2013, 04:35 AM
#14
Banned
Urge - rods with the custom age +625 3/8 bolts will hold up fine for what the op is looking at. There is no reason to think he'll make power past 10k rpms with the cam availability we have.
I have tested 2.2 with standard 3/8 bolts to 10k rpms. After 15k miles of me giving it hell the bearings always look good. In k24's we run rods with 3/8 +625 bolts to 10k in cars that see mostly drag strip use and limited street time. Not many k24's make power that high though, but there are k24 rods off the shelf with 7/16 bolts so you can upgrade those if needed. As far as I know there are no s2000 rods readily available with 7/16 bolts. If you guys have rods with 7/16 bolts available shoot me a message, I'd use those for sure in the turbo motors I build.
Getting cores for these things sucks... and I have never seen any tests of hytec cams that didnt change a bunch of other crap at the same time. I have a hard time recommending a cam when I havent seen any tests done.. I have tested bc2 and bc3 cams, and for a 2 liter or 2.2 liter the bc2's pick up some good power, on a 2.4 bc3's work ok.
I have tested 2.2 with standard 3/8 bolts to 10k rpms. After 15k miles of me giving it hell the bearings always look good. In k24's we run rods with 3/8 +625 bolts to 10k in cars that see mostly drag strip use and limited street time. Not many k24's make power that high though, but there are k24 rods off the shelf with 7/16 bolts so you can upgrade those if needed. As far as I know there are no s2000 rods readily available with 7/16 bolts. If you guys have rods with 7/16 bolts available shoot me a message, I'd use those for sure in the turbo motors I build.
Getting cores for these things sucks... and I have never seen any tests of hytec cams that didnt change a bunch of other crap at the same time. I have a hard time recommending a cam when I havent seen any tests done.. I have tested bc2 and bc3 cams, and for a 2 liter or 2.2 liter the bc2's pick up some good power, on a 2.4 bc3's work ok.
09-06-2013, 08:02 AM
#15
Finally, if you really want to spin to 10k-11k then you will need a bottom end and valve springs. 2.2L with 3/8" rod bolts will fail eventually at 10K. We design ours with 7/16" and they will be safe to 11k. We got custom wound valve springs to get the seat pressures we wanted and those will be good to 11K as well. But we wont spin our motors that high due to wear. Even with Redline or Motul 300V, you will need to rebuild annually if you frequent 11k. We overbuild for insurance, but limit our GT motors to 10K, which should be good for a few years.
Hope that helps..
Hope that helps..
So, how much would one of these Urge GT motors run (with or w/o ITBs)? And, if spun it to something like 9800, how long would it last and how much power are we talking about with ITBs (as in power increase over a stock S2k doing 200whp)?
09-06-2013, 09:35 AM
#16
Originally Posted by Urge' timestamp='1378446582' post='22764125
You can get everything you need for under 250..
New injectors, clips, 11mm hats, $246
http://www.xenocron.com/injectors-rd...fec59915f4ee1b
New injectors, clips, 11mm hats, $246
http://www.xenocron.com/injectors-rd...fec59915f4ee1b
I've seen stock WRX/STi injectors given away a few times as well.Although, per that link, when you combine the 4 injectors with the kit to make it work (clips, adapters, etc), it's $288. I could have reused the stock seals, but since I have a buddy that works at Honda, I paid like $4 for all new upper and lower seals..
I'd almost rather put an adjustable regulator in to gain that extra 50cc for less.
or No Splicing so $68 with new wires and OBDII male clips so total is $273
Yes still more for less, but these are new and known to have a great Spray pattern, some K series tuners claim HP gains from the better atomization. Also, 410 is enough for any stock bottom end NA maxed out with bolt ons. If you go FI or fully built NA engine, then IDXXX and be done with it. RDX is only a suggestion for people wanting a cost effective better than OEM S2000 injector.
Urge - rods with the custom age +625 3/8 bolts will hold up fine for what the op is looking at. There is no reason to think he'll make power past 10k rpms with the cam availability we have.
I have tested 2.2 with standard 3/8 bolts to 10k rpms. After 15k miles of me giving it hell the bearings always look good. In k24's we run rods with 3/8 +625 bolts to 10k in cars that see mostly drag strip use and limited street time. Not many k24's make power that high though, but there are k24 rods off the shelf with 7/16 bolts so you can upgrade those if needed. As far as I know there are no s2000 rods readily available with 7/16 bolts. If you guys have rods with 7/16 bolts available shoot me a message, I'd use those for sure in the turbo motors I build.
Getting cores for these things sucks... and I have never seen any tests of hytec cams that didnt change a bunch of other crap at the same time. I have a hard time recommending a cam when I havent seen any tests done.. I have tested bc2 and bc3 cams, and for a 2 liter or 2.2 liter the bc2's pick up some good power, on a 2.4 bc3's work ok.
I have tested 2.2 with standard 3/8 bolts to 10k rpms. After 15k miles of me giving it hell the bearings always look good. In k24's we run rods with 3/8 +625 bolts to 10k in cars that see mostly drag strip use and limited street time. Not many k24's make power that high though, but there are k24 rods off the shelf with 7/16 bolts so you can upgrade those if needed. As far as I know there are no s2000 rods readily available with 7/16 bolts. If you guys have rods with 7/16 bolts available shoot me a message, I'd use those for sure in the turbo motors I build.
Getting cores for these things sucks... and I have never seen any tests of hytec cams that didnt change a bunch of other crap at the same time. I have a hard time recommending a cam when I havent seen any tests done.. I have tested bc2 and bc3 cams, and for a 2 liter or 2.2 liter the bc2's pick up some good power, on a 2.4 bc3's work ok.
Weve tested Hytech and the quality is goods and the gains are there. Other cams have valvetrain issues. We have spun them on our cam doctor and there is a lot of jerk. It is just a mater of time..
If or when we finally get cams, we will focus on the right duration combos, medium lift and most important little to no cam jerk. The S2000 TCT is already poor and chain guide can get off track as we have seen a lot of wear on motors we have broken down.
Originally Posted by Urge' timestamp='1378424704' post='22763727
Finally, if you really want to spin to 10k-11k then you will need a bottom end and valve springs. 2.2L with 3/8" rod bolts will fail eventually at 10K. We design ours with 7/16" and they will be safe to 11k. We got custom wound valve springs to get the seat pressures we wanted and those will be good to 11K as well. But we wont spin our motors that high due to wear. Even with Redline or Motul 300V, you will need to rebuild annually if you frequent 11k. We overbuild for insurance, but limit our GT motors to 10K, which should be good for a few years.
Hope that helps..
Hope that helps..
So, how much would one of these Urge GT motors run (with or w/o ITBs)? And, if spun it to something like 9800, how long would it last and how much power are we talking about with ITBs (as in power increase over a stock S2k doing 200whp)?
GT motor details for the long block here, ITB stuff here. This assumes we get cam cores which we will know next week. This is will be our 3rd vendor.
__________________
09-06-2013, 06:48 PM
#17
Banned
I'd love to see some comparisons on the hytech cams. I have tuned several grand am cars with hytech packages, they all work really well. The only tests that are out there now for s2000 stuff is pretty much stock vs hytec cams, itb, header, etc. Thats all a little useless to me.
What we need are some cams that work and are easy to get and a decent intake manifold thats not $2000. There is so much power bottled up in the intake manifold
What we need are some cams that work and are easy to get and a decent intake manifold thats not $2000. There is so much power bottled up in the intake manifold
09-07-2013, 06:32 PM
#18
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Agree with Wadzii on a lot of things..
ECU should always be first upgrade, there are a lot of gains to be had there. Once you start swapping expensive parts, if it doesnt improve air flow enough to need a retune, then you are wasting money, so always ECU first. Hondata will work with OBDII if you care about that, go Haltech if you dont.
As far as injectors, OEM RDX for cost effective and ID for the best. Wadzii is dead on there.
I agree ITBs are a lot of work and unless you have a great tuner, can be frustrating, but will be the single best experience if you get them right. Our ITBs are smaller than Kinslers but flow about the same, so they have similar power potential with more torque, response and throttle control. ITBs that are too big are more difficult to modulate as partial throttle will produce full vacuum. Kinsler really made his ITBs for Drag racing. Call and ask him. If you are drag racing, I would recommend theirs over ours any day.
Second intake option is our reworked manifold. Not as much tuning as ITBs but flows as well as other ITBs (jenvey, ITB, Hayward), dont flow as well as ours and Kinslers. Still waiting for a dyno from a customer but they claim gains were "ITB like" 5-10 wtq through out RPM, tuned over tuned
As for Cams, Hytech makes the best period, but like we are finding out, getting good cam cores and grinder that is cost effective is hard to find, so I think his stock is limited. We may have found a lead on cam cores, stay tuned. But still will take 3-4 months just to get the cores.
Stay away from headers until the end, power is much more dominated by Intake, head and cams. Before you go header, go with the Gern Pipe, proven power, most header gains are mythical.
Finally, if you really want to spin to 10k-11k then you will need a bottom end and valve springs. 2.2L with 3/8" rod bolts will fail eventually at 10K. We design ours with 7/16" and they will be safe to 11k. We got custom wound valve springs to get the seat pressures we wanted and those will be good to 11K as well. But we wont spin our motors that high due to wear. Even with Redline or Motul 300V, you will need to rebuild annually if you frequent 11k. We overbuild for insurance, but limit our GT motors to 10K, which should be good for a few years.
Hope that helps..
ECU should always be first upgrade, there are a lot of gains to be had there. Once you start swapping expensive parts, if it doesnt improve air flow enough to need a retune, then you are wasting money, so always ECU first. Hondata will work with OBDII if you care about that, go Haltech if you dont.
As far as injectors, OEM RDX for cost effective and ID for the best. Wadzii is dead on there.
I agree ITBs are a lot of work and unless you have a great tuner, can be frustrating, but will be the single best experience if you get them right. Our ITBs are smaller than Kinslers but flow about the same, so they have similar power potential with more torque, response and throttle control. ITBs that are too big are more difficult to modulate as partial throttle will produce full vacuum. Kinsler really made his ITBs for Drag racing. Call and ask him. If you are drag racing, I would recommend theirs over ours any day.
Second intake option is our reworked manifold. Not as much tuning as ITBs but flows as well as other ITBs (jenvey, ITB, Hayward), dont flow as well as ours and Kinslers. Still waiting for a dyno from a customer but they claim gains were "ITB like" 5-10 wtq through out RPM, tuned over tuned
As for Cams, Hytech makes the best period, but like we are finding out, getting good cam cores and grinder that is cost effective is hard to find, so I think his stock is limited. We may have found a lead on cam cores, stay tuned. But still will take 3-4 months just to get the cores.
Stay away from headers until the end, power is much more dominated by Intake, head and cams. Before you go header, go with the Gern Pipe, proven power, most header gains are mythical.
Finally, if you really want to spin to 10k-11k then you will need a bottom end and valve springs. 2.2L with 3/8" rod bolts will fail eventually at 10K. We design ours with 7/16" and they will be safe to 11k. We got custom wound valve springs to get the seat pressures we wanted and those will be good to 11K as well. But we wont spin our motors that high due to wear. Even with Redline or Motul 300V, you will need to rebuild annually if you frequent 11k. We overbuild for insurance, but limit our GT motors to 10K, which should be good for a few years.
Hope that helps..
And im not looking for drag, im looking for track/touge. If you dont know touge, look it up, if you do "thumbs up!" And I have decided to go ecu first. Thank you for the help, i will be contacting you in the future. I was really impressed with the website and the stats you have on your performance parts!
09-07-2013, 08:00 PM
#19
Originally Posted by yamahaSHO' timestamp='1378447817' post='22764138
[quote name='Urge' timestamp='1378446582' post='22764125']
You can get everything you need for under 250..
New injectors, clips, 11mm hats, $246
http://www.xenocron.com/injectors-rd...fec59915f4ee1b
You can get everything you need for under 250..
New injectors, clips, 11mm hats, $246
http://www.xenocron.com/injectors-rd...fec59915f4ee1b
I've seen stock WRX/STi injectors given away a few times as well.Although, per that link, when you combine the 4 injectors with the kit to make it work (clips, adapters, etc), it's $288. I could have reused the stock seals, but since I have a buddy that works at Honda, I paid like $4 for all new upper and lower seals..
I'd almost rather put an adjustable regulator in to gain that extra 50cc for less.
or No Splicing so $68 with new wires and OBDII male clips so total is $273
Yes still more for less, but these are new and known to have a great Spray pattern, some K series tuners claim HP gains from the better atomization. Also, 410 is enough for any stock bottom end NA maxed out with bolt ons. If you go FI or fully built NA engine, then IDXXX and be done with it. RDX is only a suggestion for people wanting a cost effective better than OEM S2000 injector.
[/quote]
Shoot, if you just wanted to re-pin, I had those laying around from a set of ID2000's
I took the easy way out and picked up some PnP connectors from Treadstone.As far as the spray pattern, the WRX/STi injectors a literally just a larger version of the RDX. Both are Denso injectors with the same multi-hole cap.
Yes, they're new. I only get worried about buying used aftermarket/aftermarket modified injectors. Most OEM ones don't change hands in the same fashion and are pulled out and set aside. I agree, if you're boosting, ID's are the way to go. I've used countless ID's on my builds and customer builds and they scale in nicely. I went with the larger 565cc injector in order to run E85. IIRC, I am about 75% IDC on them as well. They fired right up and idled/drove like I hadn't changed them (I rescaled the fuel map prior to starting). Just another option for those wanting a bigger, better injector at an even more cost effective alternative.
09-13-2013, 08:56 PM
#20
Member
I've got dyno runs on mine pre and post fitting Hytech cams, but my car has have over 80 dyno runs and probably couldn't find which ones were which now 
All I know is they made a BIG difference on the dyno.
I also run Urge's inlet manifold and with the cams there's a good increase in power and torque.
The red is Spoon TB, standard intake maifold, standard cams, J's manifold and race cat. Blue is adding Hytech cams, Urge intake and 71mm TB, plus changing to J's manifold and 63mm decat.
Close to 20 bhp peak, 20 in the midrange and 20 lb/ft torque is pretty huge.
All I know is they made a BIG difference on the dyno.
I also run Urge's inlet manifold and with the cams there's a good increase in power and torque.
The red is Spoon TB, standard intake maifold, standard cams, J's manifold and race cat. Blue is adding Hytech cams, Urge intake and 71mm TB, plus changing to J's manifold and 63mm decat.
Close to 20 bhp peak, 20 in the midrange and 20 lb/ft torque is pretty huge.
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