psychoazn

Link to the current S2k Challenge rules: https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/998...allenge-rules/

A few reminders about the rules

- They're not perfect; they're a constant work in progress as new parts are developed, new tires hit he market, and more data is gathered.
- Buttonwillow 13 CW is used for the basis of the point system; 1 point is roughly 1 second at 13CW.
- When comparing setups, do try to keep in mind that weather can be responsible for 2 second differentials in lap times. Also remember that the age of the tires matter too.


To keep this discussion on topic, let's use this format:

1a) Proposed change
1b) Data and/or observations and/or anecdotal evidence supporting proposed change (please consider ALL setups and classes for the change)

2a) Proposed change
2b) Data and/or observations and/or anecdotal evidence supporting proposed change (please consider ALL setups and classes for the change)

3a) Proposed change
3b) Data and/or observations and/or anecdotal evidence supporting proposed change (please consider ALL setups and classes for the change)

psychoazn

- PAX system with classing for first year S2k Challenge competitors
- All first year competitors get to "dual class" into the class they would normally fit into, as well as the Novice class. The Novice class is a "run what you brung" class, where you compete on a PAX system. A 10 point car gets 10 seconds added to their time, while a 5 point car gets 5 seconds added to their time. The system won't be perfect, and will heavily favor less modded cars, but isn't that what a newer driver should be driving anyways?

Sebring AP1

1.) 9.5 wheels should not be the same penalty as 10" wheels. decrease the penalty for these by .125
2.) Hipermax Sport should be 1.25 along with the KW shocks


About the only changes I would make. Maybe even decrease the street class points by .5 and ban aero



I like this.

albertg

1. All coilovers should have the same points regardless of adjustability

2. rcomps should not be allowed in the same class as street tires.

3. Simplify the rules where tires and weight are the most scrutinized mods.
--There is too much class creep/overlap

skys2000

+1 I think there's too much class that make the field split.

Like Albert said should .if we would split the class by the street tire and race tire that will be great. Heat cycle out street tire and Fresh Rcomp have a huge cap.

Like mod class and supermod class time at BW it's pretty close, why dun we just combin it together.

JJ7

1a)Agree with no more 1pt coilover.
1b)People have been fast on HKS, KWs, SRCs and Eibachs alike. I don't see anything showing you can't build a fast coilover for cheap or anything showing a single adj can't be fast. I think all coils should be the same or make a small point increase for shocks running 13k or higher rates.

2a) I hate to be the one to say this since I'm one of very few wingless cars but I think the GTC 200 is worth more than 1.5sec. It's at least 1.8.
2b)Just based on trying different set ups. Sorry not to be more scientific.

3a)9.5" wheels should be an 1/8 pt between 9 and 10".
3b) I believe Emilio and others have done testing showing slightly better grip from 9-9.5-10" wheels.

Sebring AP1

Agree to all!

anorexicpoodle

I dont agree with the variable points on spring rate since that doesnt really enforce anything since the rate is tuned with the damper in mind. Some dampers work better with a heavier spring, some work better with a softer (SRC vs HKS). You could easily run 13k springs and then jack the spring rates with swaybars and get the same setup at less points. I think we are being overly pedantic about the shocks. I think it should be
Adjustable shocks = one value
Adjustable shocks with adjustable spring perch / ride height = higher value

I think we have enough data to say that single / double adjustable are not different enough to warrant additional penalties for a fancier shock. We have pretty much established that HKS/KW/SRC/Eibach R2 are the fast shocks and most people don't seem interested in messing with anything else. I don't think there is any kryptonite out there at this point.

I can agree with the perception that rear aero is worth more time than spec'd at the benchmark track since I have seen stock drivers add aero and shed FAR more time than the sum of their mods, but I think that is a slippery slope and would basically re-distribute most of street class into mod.

psychoazn

I'd like to add that big rear aero necessitates front aero, so in reality the point total is higher. Is it enough? That's the purpose of this thread

JJ7

I agree it's hard to seperate in points what's worth what in shocks. But spring rate seems to be the fairest way because a KW with 16k springs won't be fast unless it's been revalved. I don't believe huge sway bars and low spring rates would work great either, IDK. But I'd be ok with all shocks being the same points. Remember I'm the one who has 16k expensive shocks. Lol
As far as aero goes, I agree it would disrupt street class a bit. What about raising the points to 4.5 and the wing to 2 or something similar? Otherwise street is more like a spec class where you have to run the wing to be competitive.
But I'm cool with whatever. Just brainstorming.