The s2000 generally requires more front camber than rear if you are talking about getting even tire temps and tire wear. I would not really call it a preference. Every setup will be different though, there is no one optimal camber setting for all cars, it is setup specific. You can tune the balance by moving away from the optimal camber on one end but if you want to be as fast as possible, you are better off using optimum camber (dictated by temps) and tuning balance with roll rates IMO.

I think your decisions and path forward are good.

 

I have driven similar cars back to back one with and one without, and while the difference isn't massive I would say it is worth it. Improvement in steering feel, particularly with the car at the limit and loaded up on oddly cambered and twisty bump roads with the added benefit of making the front of the car feel bit more compliant. On a smooth track there may be less of a difference. But anything that improves feel and sometimes even improves compliance with only a small weight penalty is worth it in my book.

I don't have an x brace on my car currently, but have been extremely happy with the steering feel improvement of the ASM cross bar. Moving to stiffer spring rates it becomes much more clear how the chassis and subframe flex effects the car under load. I will definitely be trying out the Spoon x brace on my car. I am more concerned with driving feel than I am lap time. I want a car that is fun to drive fast and is fast in all scenarios, not a car that is fast in a few scenarios and feels like crap. Moving to stiffer suspension and more negative camber provided so many benefits, but steering feel was definitely sacrificed a bit. It is very easy to forget how the car felt once you have adjusted to new mods, but having driven the stock car hard for a long time that was the first thing I noticed after installing the suspension, but with the ASM bar I would say the steering feel is better than it was stock with only -0.5 front camber. At normal speeds the stock steering feel was great, but once you started pushing and the tire starts to roll over, you lose that. With more camber the car feels a bit more numb at normal speeds, but great loaded up, with more camber and the ASM bar I get the great normal speed feel and even crisper feel with the car loaded up.

The S2000 already sets a high standard in terms of driving feel, so the range of improvement is smaller, but it is definitely still possible, and worth it in my opinion. If your main concern is laptime/$ then maybe not, but in that scenario seat time is more valuable than pretty much everything but tires.

 

I agree. Very well stated.

 

Good plan.

And the x brace is in my opinion as well as I have noted. After you have gotten use to how the car feels with your new setup and alignment, go for a nicely spirited drive on a specific route, take the x brace off, and go do the same again. If you are ever doubting a mod and it is relatively easy to remove, get use to driving the car with it, and then remove it to test again without it. Time consuming but the differences are more apparent that way, and always try to go into testing something without predicting what will be different.

 

With those spring rates, front tires size/compound, and ride height you'll be putting significantly more load back through the chassis. This is where the bracing comes in. More load back through the chassis, whether it's cornering or bumps, want to bend the body. When you stiffen up the body it allows the dampers/springs and bushings to do their job since the body isn't absorbing the energy and changing the force going through the damping. Since all of that flexing takes time (milliseconds) it slows the response of the moving parts (control arms, dampers, and springs) causing delays in how the chassis reacts to steering inputs. On the S2000, the main place to improve steering feel is in the front subframe and at the gearbox. The x-brace is a great way to stiffen the front subframe and improve it's rigidity.

Think of it as pushing on a flimsy wall. When you push on a flimsy wall, the wall flexes and deforms. When you push on a block or concrete wall - you move. This is analogous to the steering rack trying to move the knuckle/wheel/tire. The chassis is the wall being pushed and you're essentially the tire, so when the tire pushes back on a flexible chassis, the chassis deforms a little and the tire doesn't move. When the tire pushes back on a rigid chassis - the tire moves. You go where the tire points you.

 

Excellent explanation. That's definitely the best way to think about it. It's all about increasing response and consistency, which increases confidence and allows you to push that much harder without sweating.

 

Thanks for the explanation. I was reading a few threads last night about front camber bias and I think I might just try it out. It makes sense to have a camber bias as the front and rear wheels have different tasks. The fronts should be optimized to steering responsiveness while the rears should maximize the contact patch since they put the power down. If I understood correctly, rear camber can increase (as opposed to the fronts) when suspension is under load/compression, so it would be better to run less camber in the rear.

I'm leaning towards -2.6 F -2.4 R, keeping a -0.2 bias as Andrew suggested.

That's a good idea. The X brace is a very simple install and I'll try that out. I actually bought it early on, not caring for performance but just bought it because it was Spoon lol. Turned out to be a worthwhile mod, but I prob won't be doing any other suspension mods unless I absolutely have to. Only other parts I have in mind are the J's Racing RCA plates for my S1 joints and J's Racing Rear RCA. I also have Spoon rigid collars and noticed the car is a lot more stable on uneven roads and when going over bumps. The ASM GT front lower arm bar is tempting but $$$

Great explanation! Turns out I made a good decision without even knowing it lol. I actually wasn't planning on running high spring rates, it just happened when I came across a deal on the Challenge Comp+ coilovers. I couldn't pass up aluminum dampers.. I think I saved a little over 2lbs per corner. I also have a set of 550lb Hyperco springs that I was actually going to try on before the 700lb set, but after reading up on the coilovers I realized that the Comp+ are valved to handle 600lb-900lb and wasn't sure how they would perform with the 550lb's. I'll most likely stick with these for a while.. the only other set I have my eyes on are the Ohlins DFVs but that would be way down the line..

 

I can relate to that train of thought. Every time I drive a Ap1 or CR I think their car feels so good. Than I remember the quicker rack. This is an expensive mod that won't buy me any lap time but I really want to do it.

 

The following is just my opinion: There are way too many variables between two S2000s to say the difference you felt was due to the x-brace. Tire temperature and pressure would have much more effect on handling. How many S2000 race cars or autocross champs ran an x-brace? In my opinion the x-brace is not worth its weight, much less the cost and effort to install. If I woke up and found one on my porch I wouldn't install it on my race car or my wife's stock s2k. Keep in mind the added weight and cost are 100% real, the positive effects of the x-brace ???

I post this to try to save future s2k drivers from wasting their mod money.

 

no one in autocross runs this for the same reason no one runs a strut bar. but arguably the strut bar can serve as a oil catch can mounting location or an arm rest while working on the car.