The following is just my opinion: There are way too many variables between two S2000s to say the difference you felt was due to the x-brace. Tire temperature and pressure would have much more effect on handling. How many S2000 race cars or autocross champs ran an x-brace? In my opinion the x-brace is not worth its weight, much less the cost and effort to install. If I woke up and found one on my porch I wouldn't install it on my race car or my wife's stock s2k. I post this to try to save future s2k drivers from wasting their mod money.
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Rylan did (or does) based on feedback from an ex-CART chief mechanic. Spoon has for years and years in Super Taikyu with real success well before anyone was doing anything at all with the S2000 in the U.S. and still do, I could go on. That said, anyone who bases their opinion on a mod on how who else has run it isn't a person I am going to take seriously.

Also. Just because someone has enough money to go racing, doesn't mean they at all know what they are talking about, or have actually been successful at it.

 

Andrew, Spoon is in the business of selling x-braces.

If you don't pay attention to what your competition is running, well, you just don't do that.

Is that last line in reference to me? If yes you need to do some research and maybe take a look an obscure little website called robrob..somethin.or.other...com

Remember, you're the one that posted this in the Racing and Competition Forum:

 

Yes that is all the guys at Spoon are concerned with. Milking that x-brace racket for all it's worth. Give me a break. Having met Ichishima-san, that couldn't be further from the truth.

Why do so many seem to forget that Spoon sells parts to go racing? They have been racing in Super Taikyu for as long as anyone racing Hondas in the U.S. if not far longer, and have consistently done so since the shop was founded. J's Racing has done the same. You know, with actual professional drivers. Not to mention, Spoon has been working closely with Honda long before the S2000 was even conceived.

There is a big difference between knowing what your competition is running, and knowing why your competition is running something, which requires doing testing of your own. Something that works for one driver might not work at all for another.

Yes it is a very obscure little website. Don't kid yourself into thinking it is the S2000 tuning bible. It is not, and this forum definitely is not.

Don't misunderstand me though. I know this seems needlessly confrontational, but based on my own testing I think you are wrong and want to make that very clear. I also don't think you have any authority to tell people to not test something on their own or saying they have wasted their money, etc. I have clearly stated my opinion and recommend people test it on their own and they should take feedback from people (that have also tested it) who's opinion they value.

 

Andrew,

If the x-brace made the s2k faster, trust me, we'd all be running them. You can't keep a secret in racing and autocross.

I know I don't have the authority to tell anyone not to test. I would love it if someone did a blind test with a car with and without an x-brace. My point is that of the hundreds of go-fast parts discussed on the R&C forum the x-brace is only mentioned when discussing worthless mods. There's a crap-ton of competition experience that hangs out on this forum and I've never heard anything positive about the brace. I'm just giving my opinion on this part and trying to save people some money. I've put way too many parts on my racecar that have not made any difference in handling or lap time--and lap times are what this particular forum is all about. Isn't there an s2k forum dedicated to modification?

 

It doesn't mean anything that Spoon has been racing or is successful in racing. Spoon sells overpriced ricey crap to ricers, that's how they make money (case in point, the OP admitted he bought it for one reason "because Spoon"). Not to say they don't also make some real performance parts.

You jump down Robs throat that he has no business telling people what to buy (and insult his website) but you are doing the same thing! And your "testing" by driving 2 different cars is completely worthless! If you want to do a real test, you need a very good driver to test it on the same car on a track and compare lap times (better yet, blind as Rob states).

I don't take anyone on this boards opinion as fact. But Robs opinion is one that I definitely value. And Rob is the type of guy that will admit when he is wrong, where other around here do not...

 

They also do it with these things called rigid collars, that are pretty worthless, except distancing people from their money.

 

Yes everyone says they are worthless, except for every single person that has actually tested them.

 

My opinion for a dual purpose car. -2.5 front and rear. Stock toe. With the stiffer front sway bias should be fine. You won't lose the rear end unless driving like a d-bag.

 

What the hell are you talking about //steve\\? Oh, yea, alignment advice.

 

Again, I don't think I can make myself anymore clear. I am not telling anyone to buy or not buy anything, I am telling people to figure it out for themselves through their own testing.

If you think that the only way to test a part's worth is direct lap time this is a pointless discussion. One driver's ability to extract time from a car is completely different from another's, and each will have very different preferences in how a car is setup. Engineering is pointless without testing. No point in making predictions if you aren't going to try to test them. I completely agree that my own testing isn't very valuable to others, because it is more about my preference as a driver, but it is what I have experienced and it was a surprisingly clear difference. It is completely possible for me to put an x-brace on my own car now and not notice anything at all, to me it is worth more thorough testing. It's quite clear to me that the front subframe is an area of the car that could be improved slightly, if others disagree with that fine, but it isn't just me you disagree with.

The only reason I even bring anything up is it drives me insane listening to people bad mouth Japanese tuning shops (who actually do more than club racing), posting up stuff like it new information when people have been doing the same in Japan for years, and without knowing anything about the people behind these tuning shops, who are absolutely in it for the right reasons and are involved in racing to win, not just participate.

I am a fan of Rob myself, and I think his website is a great resource for many people and he should be applauded for sharing the info he has gathered, but that doesn't make him, or anyone else immune to being wrong.