Aaaanyway. Alignment advice.

 

Yes everyone says they are worthless, except for every single person that has actually tested them.
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I'm guessing you have a list of these people?

Besides the obvious misunderstanding of how bolts work and why the rigid collars do nothing special, I run a slightly aggressive euro spec alignment. aka, more camber and a bit of toe-out in the front.

 

Yes everyone says they are worthless, except for every single person that has actually tested them.
[/quote]
I'm guessing you have a list of these people?

Besides the obvious misunderstanding of how bolts work and why the rigid collars do nothing special, I run a slightly aggressive euro spec alignment. aka, more camber and a bit of toe-out in the front.
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Myself, takchi (Counterspace Garage), RedlinedITR (Anish who owns Speed-freaks.net and has contributed a lot to the S2000 community) come to mind as far as people who post on this particular forum. But you seem to have done some extremely thorough testing of them yourself since you seem to be so certain of their usefulness. Either that or you haven't tested anything at all?

 

All bets are off once the car has a roll cage that completely changes the torsional rigidity of the car. For a street car with stickier tires and stiffer springs that goes to track days and auto-x, the X-brace and rigid collars make a steering feel and consistency difference - that's from my own experience.They can even improve ride quality in some cases because the damper loading is more consistent. If you aren't putting more load back through the chassis with suspension mods or the way you drive it, they won't make a difference and the car doesn't need them. When you're loading the car in corners these mods may not help you go faster by tenths, but they'll help you to be consistent and give a more direct feel for what each wheel and the car is doing.

Not every driver will feel these things. There are race car drivers that drive around deficiencies all the time. I can tell you that during development, small differences in bushing and engine mount durometer are felt and tuned extensively. I know test drivers who can tell that subframe bolt torque is inadequate. For reference, I'm a vehicle development engineer for Honda involved in suspension, steering and tire development.

 

It seems like everyone's arguing but agreeing. These parts in question can make small but appreciable differences in the cars feel in particular situations (type of driving, car prep) but are not made to make the car faster per se. Doesn't seem like it needs to be an arguement.
I spent almost 4k on shocks and I'm not sure my car is any faster than it was with 2k shocks. But after driving a couple cars with the shocks I have now, I was sold. My car would certainly be faster w/ $1000 of aero but I enjoy driving my car as is. Different strokes for different folks.

 

I salute you sir.

 

I disagree with this in regards to the x-brace. If it really stiffened the s2k enough that you can 'feel' the difference then it would improve the damping dynamics of the car and it would reduce track/course lap times (lap times are cruel and objective). The x-brace is not a 'comfort' modification. In contrast a roll cage stiffens the car enough to actually lower lap times.

 

The benefit of parts that improve steering precision, feel and response isn't always objective with lap times. With lap times, you look at the best time around a track, which usually doesn't involve driving around other cars on the line, curbs, or steering inputs to get back online. You're loading the car in a predictable way and likely to avoid things that you know will upset the car or lose traction. Consistency may improve

Having to go offline to pass cars, use curbing to correct your line after being off, offline bumps, etc - those are the areas (again, in a street car, without a roll cage that ties the chassis together) where there are improvements in communication of the car and more precision in the steering. The amount of grip the tires have and the amount of grip the driver thinks the tires have isn't always the same, the reason for that gap is often times chassis/subframe flex under load.

 

You need more track/autocross time if you believe that. When pushing for your best lap time (time trial or qualifying) you're constantly making corrections back online, hitting curbs, etc. This is the disconnect in our discussion. Your conception of running on a track is flawed. Steering precision, feel and response all go into car control which leads to lower lap times.

 

While I agree, a stiffer chassis lets the suspension and tires do what they are suppose to do... however, if your subframe is shifting around while you're driving, you may want to consider torquing the bolts down. I torqued my subframe, then marked the bolts with whiteout years ago, as well as my alignment bolts. Before and after every event (autocross and track days), I check the marks to make sure nothing has shifted, especially since I hit kerbing quite hard... and oddly enough...