Alignment and setup questions
02-01-2013, 06:46 AM
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Alignment and setup questions
hello there! 2006 AP2, mainly a autoX'r but getting into some track days. I need some advice on a new alignment and swaybar settings for my first track day with the S2000. Input on a AutoX setup is welcome too. I have around 240+ laps of experience on track with a fairly fast, NASA H1 prepped Civic but it's been about 6 years since I've driven a real HPDE track day. I have been autoX'ing the S2000 for about 1.5 years now. was in stock form for about 1 AutoX and then started STR prep. Been AutoXing since 2005.
My setup
Shocks - KW clubsport, 750# front, 650# rear (I have 700s rear to throw on the rear)
Sways - front Gendron 1.25"x .25 wall (bearing mounts) - AutoX I typically use the stiffest and second to stiffest setting
rear Gendron 1"x 0.125" wall (bearing mounts - AutoX I typically use the top two stiffest settings
Brakes - Motul fluid, SOS direction front rotors, centric rear, XP10/XP8 pads.
Safety - just OEM roll hoops
Tires -
Currently I'm running some Hankook RS3s, 255 square, almost to the wear bars in the center, and to the wear bars on the sides. I'm getting some new Dunlop ZIIs soon and was wondering if it's okay to get alignment before I mount them or if I should just wait untill after I get them?
I was thinking of changing my alignment. I haven't aligned it in about a year. It doesn't do anything goofy at the moment
Currently at
-2.9 camber front, -2.6 rear.
Zero toe front
a tad over 1/8" toe in rear
around 6.5 caster front.
I was thinking of going with Zero toe all around and reducing caster to more around 5 to 5.5 to allow the wheel to recenter a little better.
So mainly my questions are
1.) What swaybar settings should I start with for my first track day?
2.) Alignment setting suggestion
3.) should I have the alignment shop put weight in the drivers seat if I mainly AutoX?
---things to keep in mind, for Track day, I will have an instructor in the car. or just don't worry about this
4.) Since I typically use the stiffest rear bar settings, should I up my rear spring rates 50#s
5.) Starting COLD and HOT tire pressure goals.
Other notes:
Car handles well as is for AutoX. Good enough for me to score well at local events in the top 10 for PAX in Arizona. A little push is build into my setttings currently and I've softened things up a bit due to Heat cycled out RS3s and colder temps.
everything is calculated using "puhn" then in "rate at link" then in "rate after motin ratio" (na=don't have the number)
Front- joshes #s
gendron 1.25" hollow setting 1 578/527/721
gendron 1.25" hollow setting 2 628/571/782
gendron 1.25" hollow setting 3 685/621/850
gendron 1.25" hollow setting 4 831/742/1016
gendron 1.25" hollow setting 5 917/817/1118
gendron 1.25" hollow setting 6 1016/904/1238
Bills #s at lb/in at the wheel
ap1 = 168
295,320,347,416,458,506
REAR
#s at wheel from Bill himself.
84,92,103,112,126
Ap1 OEM bar =168
Thanks for the advice guys!
My setup
Shocks - KW clubsport, 750# front, 650# rear (I have 700s rear to throw on the rear)
Sways - front Gendron 1.25"x .25 wall (bearing mounts) - AutoX I typically use the stiffest and second to stiffest setting
rear Gendron 1"x 0.125" wall (bearing mounts - AutoX I typically use the top two stiffest settings
Brakes - Motul fluid, SOS direction front rotors, centric rear, XP10/XP8 pads.
Safety - just OEM roll hoops
Tires -
Currently I'm running some Hankook RS3s, 255 square, almost to the wear bars in the center, and to the wear bars on the sides. I'm getting some new Dunlop ZIIs soon and was wondering if it's okay to get alignment before I mount them or if I should just wait untill after I get them?
I was thinking of changing my alignment. I haven't aligned it in about a year. It doesn't do anything goofy at the moment
Currently at
-2.9 camber front, -2.6 rear.
Zero toe front
a tad over 1/8" toe in rear
around 6.5 caster front.
I was thinking of going with Zero toe all around and reducing caster to more around 5 to 5.5 to allow the wheel to recenter a little better.
So mainly my questions are
1.) What swaybar settings should I start with for my first track day?
2.) Alignment setting suggestion
3.) should I have the alignment shop put weight in the drivers seat if I mainly AutoX?
---things to keep in mind, for Track day, I will have an instructor in the car. or just don't worry about this
4.) Since I typically use the stiffest rear bar settings, should I up my rear spring rates 50#s
5.) Starting COLD and HOT tire pressure goals.
Other notes:
Car handles well as is for AutoX. Good enough for me to score well at local events in the top 10 for PAX in Arizona. A little push is build into my setttings currently and I've softened things up a bit due to Heat cycled out RS3s and colder temps.
everything is calculated using "puhn" then in "rate at link" then in "rate after motin ratio" (na=don't have the number)
Front- joshes #s
gendron 1.25" hollow setting 1 578/527/721
gendron 1.25" hollow setting 2 628/571/782
gendron 1.25" hollow setting 3 685/621/850
gendron 1.25" hollow setting 4 831/742/1016
gendron 1.25" hollow setting 5 917/817/1118
gendron 1.25" hollow setting 6 1016/904/1238
Bills #s at lb/in at the wheel
ap1 = 168
295,320,347,416,458,506
REAR
#s at wheel from Bill himself.
84,92,103,112,126
Ap1 OEM bar =168
Thanks for the advice guys!
02-01-2013, 08:16 AM
#2
Former Sponsor
In my opinion, everything looks good, including your alignment. Its hard for anyone to give input on your setup without you knowing what its doing that you like and what its doing that you dont like.
That being, said, id start with the front sway in the middle and the rear sway on full soft or unhooked. I run stock sways on my car with 700/600 lb springs and its hooked up pretty good.
1.) What swaybar settings should I start with for my first track day?
see above
2.) Alignment setting suggestion
Current looks good to me. RS3s might wear a little funny on the shoulder with those camber settins (i.e. not enough)
3.) should I have the alignment shop put weight in the drivers seat if I mainly AutoX?
---things to keep in mind, for Track day, I will have an instructor in the car. or just don't worry about this
No, dont worry about it, especially at this point in time. Don't obsess over the set up, just get out there and give it a go. The less you worry about the car, the more you can focus on the task at hand.
4.) Since I typically use the stiffest rear bar settings, should I up my rear spring rates 50#s
For the way I drive, a stiff rear rollbar is a no no. Softer rear springs and softer rear sway are my preferred method. Oversteer on track may feel cool, but it's slower almost all of the time.
5.) Starting COLD and HOT tire pressure goals.
I like to run most street tires at 37-39 psi hot. I start them at 32 psi every morning, then air them down when I come in after every session.
Do the sway settings, don't worry about the setup and just get out there for your first event in the S, then report back.
That being, said, id start with the front sway in the middle and the rear sway on full soft or unhooked. I run stock sways on my car with 700/600 lb springs and its hooked up pretty good.
1.) What swaybar settings should I start with for my first track day?
see above
2.) Alignment setting suggestion
Current looks good to me. RS3s might wear a little funny on the shoulder with those camber settins (i.e. not enough)
3.) should I have the alignment shop put weight in the drivers seat if I mainly AutoX?
---things to keep in mind, for Track day, I will have an instructor in the car. or just don't worry about this
No, dont worry about it, especially at this point in time. Don't obsess over the set up, just get out there and give it a go. The less you worry about the car, the more you can focus on the task at hand.
4.) Since I typically use the stiffest rear bar settings, should I up my rear spring rates 50#s
For the way I drive, a stiff rear rollbar is a no no. Softer rear springs and softer rear sway are my preferred method. Oversteer on track may feel cool, but it's slower almost all of the time.
5.) Starting COLD and HOT tire pressure goals.
I like to run most street tires at 37-39 psi hot. I start them at 32 psi every morning, then air them down when I come in after every session.
Do the sway settings, don't worry about the setup and just get out there for your first event in the S, then report back.
02-01-2013, 08:26 AM
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Thanks for the input. I was originally thinking setting 3 of 6 front and 4 of 5 rear. I think the rear bar goes about 20#/in under the stock 06 ap2 bar so at setting 4 it'd be about 40 under.
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02-01-2013, 08:26 AM
#4
Former Sponsor
Thanks for the input. I was thinking setting 3 of 6 front and 4 of 5 rear. I think the rear bar goes about 20#/in under the stock 06 ap2 bar so at setting 4 it'd be about 40 under.
What about tire pressures?
I have a compressor so adding isn't a big deal.
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What about tire pressures?
I have a compressor so adding isn't a big deal.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
02-01-2013, 08:31 AM
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Ha, I updated mine after u updated yours.
Thanks again.
I will probably be pulling the rs3s before the track day. I not sure the shoulders will last 40-50 laps. Maybe I should post a picture of the and see what u think.
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Thanks again.
I will probably be pulling the rs3s before the track day. I not sure the shoulders will last 40-50 laps. Maybe I should post a picture of the and see what u think.
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02-01-2013, 08:45 AM
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Should i use these? I'm not real concerned about just mounting up the new stuff. Last thing I want is to have to end the day early due to corded tires.
Edge grooves just started to go away. Ran them a little to low last autoX. Not real familiar with how these wear. [attachment=33839:uploadfromtaptalk1359740516002.jp g]
[attachment=33840:uploadfromtaptalk1359740538053.jp g]
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Edge grooves just started to go away. Ran them a little to low last autoX. Not real familiar with how these wear. [attachment=33839:uploadfromtaptalk1359740516002.jp g]
[attachment=33840:uploadfromtaptalk1359740538053.jp g]
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02-01-2013, 08:49 AM
#7
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Whats the lift look like on the inside? In my opinion, they've got some lift left in them. Maybe have them flipped to where the inside is on the outside? How many sessions and how long are they? Going to firebird?
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02-01-2013, 08:54 AM
#8
Member
In my opinion, everything looks good, including your alignment. Its hard for anyone to give input on your setup without you knowing what its doing that you like and what its doing that you dont like.
That being, said, id start with the front sway in the middle and the rear sway on full soft or unhooked. I run stock sways on my car with 700/600 lb springs and its hooked up pretty good.
1.) What swaybar settings should I start with for my first track day?
see above
2.) Alignment setting suggestion
Current looks good to me. RS3s might wear a little funny on the shoulder with those camber settins (i.e. not enough)
3.) should I have the alignment shop put weight in the drivers seat if I mainly AutoX?
---things to keep in mind, for Track day, I will have an instructor in the car. or just don't worry about this
No, dont worry about it, especially at this point in time. Don't obsess over the set up, just get out there and give it a go. The less you worry about the car, the more you can focus on the task at hand.
4.) Since I typically use the stiffest rear bar settings, should I up my rear spring rates 50#s
For the way I drive, a stiff rear rollbar is a no no. Softer rear springs and softer rear sway are my preferred method. Oversteer on track may feel cool, but it's slower almost all of the time.
5.) Starting COLD and HOT tire pressure goals.
I like to run most street tires at 37-39 psi hot. I start them at 32 psi every morning, then air them down when I come in after every session.
Do the sway settings, don't worry about the setup and just get out there for your first event in the S, then report back.
That being, said, id start with the front sway in the middle and the rear sway on full soft or unhooked. I run stock sways on my car with 700/600 lb springs and its hooked up pretty good.
1.) What swaybar settings should I start with for my first track day?
see above
2.) Alignment setting suggestion
Current looks good to me. RS3s might wear a little funny on the shoulder with those camber settins (i.e. not enough)
3.) should I have the alignment shop put weight in the drivers seat if I mainly AutoX?
---things to keep in mind, for Track day, I will have an instructor in the car. or just don't worry about this
No, dont worry about it, especially at this point in time. Don't obsess over the set up, just get out there and give it a go. The less you worry about the car, the more you can focus on the task at hand.
4.) Since I typically use the stiffest rear bar settings, should I up my rear spring rates 50#s
For the way I drive, a stiff rear rollbar is a no no. Softer rear springs and softer rear sway are my preferred method. Oversteer on track may feel cool, but it's slower almost all of the time.
5.) Starting COLD and HOT tire pressure goals.
I like to run most street tires at 37-39 psi hot. I start them at 32 psi every morning, then air them down when I come in after every session.
Do the sway settings, don't worry about the setup and just get out there for your first event in the S, then report back.
Also good to see someone else just using OEM bars!
Im just using stiffer springs (12kg front 11kg rear)
Aftermarket bars are heavy too.
02-01-2013, 09:09 AM
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Firebird east track.
They have about 200 autoX runs, 2.5-3k miles and r about 1.5 years old.
I won't be paying to flip them a second time. The inside has a little more groove but almost ready to go away. The picture shows what the worst 2 look like. I can run the slightly better ones up front.
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They have about 200 autoX runs, 2.5-3k miles and r about 1.5 years old.
I won't be paying to flip them a second time. The inside has a little more groove but almost ready to go away. The picture shows what the worst 2 look like. I can run the slightly better ones up front.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
02-01-2013, 09:58 AM
#10
