Windscreen

OK, so for 2005 we're all in A-stock. I think it's bull puckey, but it's reality and we have to deal with it. Everyone seems to be concentrating on the threat from the C4 Vette. I think that is nothing compared to the the 2006 Boxster S.

Here is my reasoning:

1 - It's already fast, perhaps THE car to have in AS
I hold that the current Boxster S was already the car to have in AS. In 2000 Faulkner took 2nd in SS in an S that he had been driving on a somewhat limited basis (I think it was only about 1/2 a year). At the 2001 Nats (9-11 year), the Box S was 3rd in Z06 dominated SS with Faulkner driving. In 2003, we saw zero Box S's at Nats. $I'm not sure $ why the car $ hasn't been more $ widely campaigned. Maybe because it costs so damn much. In 2003 it rained on AS day one. Day 2 Faulkner had a dirty time good for 2nd, then slowed down 1.166 sec to clean it up. Many commented it seemed peculiar he had to slow so much to stay clean.

2 - Improved performance for 2005
For the MY2006, (available in early '05), the Box S gets a 20 hp bump to 280 hp, and presumably some incremental handling improvements as well. Sounds like a potential AS dominator to me.

3 - It is not a car the membership wants to Solo in
After the 2002 restructure, the Box S started out in SS but was immediately listed as a possible move to AS for 2002 (which did happen). AS turnouts in 2002 were tiny, in what many thought should have been spec C4, with huge fields of this very affordable sports car. I heard lots of C4 owners say the reason was the threat of the pending move of the Box S. They felt they couldn't beat it, so why waste money on getting their C4 ready for battle again? Remember, the RX-7tt originally chased all the C4 guys away, and here was a car that beat all the RX-7's, but would cost you about $50,000. At the 2002 Nats, we saw zero Boxster S's. At the 2003 Nats, there were 2 Box S's with three entrants in open and one in ladies, further showing extremely limited support for this car.


My conclusion, and letter to the SEB, will be that the 2006 Boxster S should not be put in a position where it may have a chance to be a dominant car. At $55,000 there are not but a few members that want to and can afford to autocross one. In fact, the highest placing one was never the car's owner, only someone fortunate enough to be in a position to borrow one. If the car were to show a few strong wins at the national level, AS will immediately decline we'll be lucky to have 20 cars at the 2005 Nats.

In the interest of consistency, I would ask the SEB to repeat the process they carried out with '04 S2000. Put the '06 Boxster in SS since, on paper, it shows to be an improvement over the current car, which I argue is already the car to have for the class. Then, if the SEB is serious about the best of breed philosophy, request for member comment on a possible move of all Boxsters to SS for 2006. Using the one year rule, all Boxsters are able to be classed together by the end of 2005.


Comment and discuss, please.

Steve

PedalFaster

I agree that the current Boxster S is still one of the cars to have in AS, so I would question putting the new model in AS as well.

On the other hand, an SEB member is on the record on another forum as saying that the classes are getting faster. That's why the SEB put the '05 Mini Cooper S in GS, and is considering moving down some of the slower DS cars. SS looks to be getting faster too, with the GT3 going there this year, and potentially the C6 Z06 going there next year. I don't agree with the Mini Cooper S or GT3 decisions, but what's done is done, and if the SEB applies this line of reasoning consistently, it follows that the '06 Boxster S will go into AS.

As an aside, I don't think one can really argue that the current Boxster S prohibitively expensive anymore -- '00 and '01 models in good shape can be found in the low thirties (i.e. the price of a new S2000). The car got a little power bump in '03, but I don't think 8 hp makes much of a difference, especially since the earlier cars are lighter. The new car will of course be very pricey, though.

Steve

payneinthe

If the stock classes are getting faster, why did they feel the need to slow down BS?

Orthonormal

I think that if the guiding principle right now is that the stock classes are getting faster, then the S2000 should not have been moved "up". The slower cars in the class should have been moved down. To where? Well, C stock is currently a very active class with cars that would not match the mid-pack B stock cars in performance. However, C stock and E stock are so close in performance that mildly disadvantaged C stock cars (the '94-97 Miatas) were moved down into E stock with the expectation of even competition. That being the case, why not simply merge C stock into E stock?

That would leave:
SS: C5
AS: C4 and Boxster S
BS: S2000, Boxster, and Z4
CS: MR2 Turbo, RX-8, 350Z, Mazdaspeed Mata, Porsche 968, BMW E36 M cars
ES: Miata non-Turbo (all), MR2 non-turbo (all), Porsche 924

That would leave the opportunity to move the C4 and Boxster S down to BS to make room for the non-Z06 C5, or some other way of dividing the latest ultra-performance cars into two classes (SS = C6 Z06, AS = C5 Z06 and Elise perhaps)

tmorrow

In '03 the Box-S was 3rd with Faulkner. Danny Shields ran in the rain with true street tires and it killed him. He was the only other non-C4 in the trophies,and finished 8th. I thought that Danny had a legitimate shot at winning AS this year. He bought his own and drove it all year. At the last local before Nats. he was trying to decide if A3SO3's or 4's worked better on the front and seemed to have the car working just right with 04's all around. Well, he works for TECO (Tampa Elec. Co.) and in the month prior to Nationals we had two storms that left a good chunk of their customer base w/o power (myself included). To complicate things the projected track of Ivan, the weekend before Nationals, was right over Tampa. I'll never know, but I sincerely believe he'd have won AS.

I've been reading up on the next Box-S. It seems like there are enough signifigant improvements, on paper, to warrant a SS listing. The SAB/SEB sort of set a precedent with the '04 S2000's AS listing (going against the "best of breed" b.s.). So, I would hope, that they'd do the same with the new Boxster since it's gains are more performance oriented than any the F22C had/has.

It'll get;
1) the horsepower and torque bumps (same displacement if anyone is curious).
2) a new gear box, advertised as having 15% shorter throws and a "better" feel - probably doesn't matter for a few 1-2 shifts but it can't help but be better.
3) Larger contact patch: 235's on the front and 285's on the rear (I can't seem to find rim widths listed anywhere) so vs. the 245's all around that the current Boxster-S drivers are running - the '06 may be able to wear 245F/275R or even 275F/315R (total speculation).
4) Variable ratio electric assisted power steering - probably a + for autocross.
5) Supposedly will cost LESS than a comparably equipped '04 model.

Is Porsche going to be spending a bunch of moeny with the SCCA next year or something ? Potentially, you could have a GT3 win SS, a Boxser-S win AS ('06 or not), and a 968 win BS (don't get happy Steve, I was thinking of Faulkner's ).
J/K

Now why can't my Dad own a Porsche dealer!?




Edit:

Now forget about the S variant for a minute. The 2006 standard Boxster will be going to 240Hp., getting large wheels/tires, the same variable ratio steering, etc. Even if the S gets a SS listing, the regular one won't. That'd be an S2000 beater, IMO, on most courses too.

tmorrow

Here's some good reading on the subject: L I N K Y


I'll take my S w/ PASM, sports chrono pack., and ceramic brakes, please.

PedalFaster

The current Boxster has 9" rims in back -- it can run much wider tires than 245s. The reason people usually don't is that the Boxster has very limited front camber, and with wider rear tires, tends to push. I don't expect this situation to change for the '06.

You don't know who's codriving my car next year...

Steve

PedalFaster

[QUOTE=tmorrow,Oct 15 2004, 07:31 PM]The 2006 standard Boxster will be going to 240Hp., getting large wheels/tires, the same variable ratio steering, etc.

tmorrow

What I sort of meant was that even if the S version was to be bumped, the regular version may still be capable of being a class winner.

And I'm sure Ron or Scotty will kick but in your 968 with the crazy electro-shock therapy gimmick (and even w/o). I'm just jealous. All I have to look forward to is a blown diff., CV failures, and re-welding the upper A-arm brackets... It's made it 35K mi. and I'm sure things are getting ready to let loose. Why not lease an RX-8 and chase the Mazda contengencies (speaking of you + co-driver, not me)?

Jason Saini

It just had better not be Falkner!

And make sure you replace those ball-joints with factory replacements, too.

I agree totally with Steve, and I plan to write a letter addressing that subject to the SEB/SCAC... anyone else wishing to do so should send them NOW as I'm sure this decision will be made soon. And without direction, the SEB is bound do something crazy, as it seems they are smoking some good stuff these days.

Now, I just need to figure out where to get me some of that.

seb@scca.com for your letters, guys!