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Brake Setup Advice please

 
Old 12-11-2018, 02:42 PM
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This may be helpful: Wilwood Air Ducting for Short Track Stock Car Racing https://www.wilwood.com/PDF/DataSheets/ds254.pdf
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Old 12-11-2018, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Sickdayracing View Post
Odd, I have 33 days/113 sessions on mine. Mine are used in TT so sessions are 15 min vs typical 20-25 min HPDE sessions but 10-12 days is way low. Mine are cooled and I run ST47 pads.
Dunno. In my head this is already normal to me lol. No complaints at all. I'm happy that the rotors last as long as they do. I also run the Urge rears and they have lasted about 13 days so far but the little micro cracks are not so micro anymore and are getting quite close to the edge so I'm guessing I have another 3-4 days on them. Just received replacement rings last week for when they do decide to crack.
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Old 12-11-2018, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Sickdayracing View Post
Odd, I have 33 days/113 sessions on mine. Mine are used in TT so sessions are 15 min vs typical 20-25 min HPDE sessions but 10-12 days is way low. Mine are cooled and I run ST47 pads.
Since you are running competitive events on Hoosier A7 tires with close to stock power levels and are a pretty fast driver, wouldn't you use less braking than most of the others with elevated power levels, less sticky tires, and in non-competitive/less-competitive events?
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Old 12-12-2018, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidNJ View Post
Since you are running competitive events on Hoosier A7 tires with close to stock power levels and are a pretty fast driver, wouldn't you use less braking than most of the others with elevated power levels, less sticky tires, and in non-competitive/less-competitive events?
Yes. Shorter more abrupt braking versus longer more gradual braking which is what I see most DE drivers doing.
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Sickdayracing View Post
Odd, I have 33 days/113 sessions on mine. Mine are used in TT so sessions are 15 min vs typical 20-25 min HPDE sessions but 10-12 days is way low. Mine are cooled and I run ST47 pads.
Originally Posted by Sickdayracing View Post
Yes. Shorter more abrupt braking versus longer more gradual braking which is what I see most DE drivers doing.
I was thinking more that you are braking less. For example, based on your tires and setup, you could be exiting a corner on a 2000ft straight at 84mph, while a car on more common track day tires may exit at 80mph. Let's assume they have engine mods that lets their car accelerate at 2mph/sec while you accelerate at 1.5mph/sec. At the end of the straight, they are going 109mph, you are at 105mph. Actual time on the straight is about the same (14.4 sec). Then they brake to 60mph, but since you carry more speed into the turn you brake to 70mph (the tires and rules that let you be more aggressive). Their brakes would have to absorb about 1/3rd more energy than yours.
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:49 AM
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Cool-down procedure is really important as you get into higher rotor and caliper temps (which will almost certainly come hand-in-hand with more aggressive pads). If you're coming off track on a hot lap and parking the car, you're going to crack rotors. I try to do a full cool-down lap (fast as possible with minimum braking) and then circle the paddock or access roads for a full 5 minutes before stopping, and then I still push the car forward after a few minutes of sitting to expose the hot part of the rotor under the caliper. I'm usually still circling the paddock while everyone else is looking at their video. My stock sized rotors have lasted a lot longer as I got more and more anal about cool-down.
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Old 12-13-2018, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by thomsbrain View Post
Cool-down procedure is really important as you get into higher rotor and caliper temps (which will almost certainly come hand-in-hand with more aggressive pads). If you're coming off track on a hot lap and parking the car, you're going to crack rotors. I try to do a full cool-down lap (fast as possible with minimum braking) and then circle the paddock or access roads for a full 5 minutes before stopping, and then I still push the car forward after a few minutes of sitting to expose the hot part of the rotor under the caliper. I'm usually still circling the paddock while everyone else is looking at their video. My stock sized rotors have lasted a lot longer as I got more and more anal about cool-down.
I do pretty much the same thing but not as much time cooling in the pits. I usually do one cool down lap and one lap around pits. Maybe i'll try 2 laps around pits LOL
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Old 12-13-2018, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by thomsbrain View Post
Cool-down procedure is really important as you get into higher rotor and caliper temps (which will almost certainly come hand-in-hand with more aggressive pads). If you're coming off track on a hot lap and parking the car, you're going to crack rotors. I try to do a full cool-down lap (fast as possible with minimum braking) and then circle the paddock or access roads for a full 5 minutes before stopping, and then I still push the car forward after a few minutes of sitting to expose the hot part of the rotor under the caliper. I'm usually still circling the paddock while everyone else is looking at their video. My stock sized rotors have lasted a lot longer as I got more and more anal about cool-down.
Originally Posted by 114_ap2 View Post
I do pretty much the same thing but not as much time cooling in the pits. I usually do one cool down lap and one lap around pits. Maybe i'll try 2 laps around pits LOL
It would be interesting if you folks could find any authoritative source on driving around the paddock. I can't imagine any race organizer having cars randomly driving around a crowded paddock with people moving and cars gridding. Dedicated race cars would not be driving around access roads.

I would have thought they require the cars to slow down after they wave the flag ending the session. that is the cool-off lap. Most of the heat should be gone at that point.

It sounds like the issue is that your rotor mass and brake cooling are marginal for your tires, wt/hp, aero, driving style, and track layout. Addressing that is probably the better solution.
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Old 12-14-2018, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidNJ View Post
It would be interesting if you folks could find any authoritative source on driving around the paddock. I can't imagine any race organizer having cars randomly driving around a crowded paddock with people moving and cars gridding. Dedicated race cars would not be driving around access roads.

I would have thought they require the cars to slow down after they wave the flag ending the session. that is the cool-off lap. Most of the heat should be gone at that point.

It sounds like the issue is that your rotor mass and brake cooling are marginal for your tires, wt/hp, aero, driving style, and track layout. Addressing that is probably the better solution.
When I drive around the pits it at anywhere from 5-10mph so no danger to anyone walking/roaming around. The tracks here have plenty of space to drive around in the pits.
One cool down lap is still sometimes not enough. I've measured my rotor temps still at 450+ after a full cooldown lap.
I really don't think I have an issue with the brakes at all. I'm on A052's, bolt on power, no wing and yes I think i do have a aggressive driving style. The brakes are providing the stopping power I need with perfectly even pad wear. They last 3-4x's stock rotors. I'm a happy camper.

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Old 12-14-2018, 06:53 AM
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I found some PCA events will throw the checkered flag giving me about 1/4 lap to cool down. I expect they do this to maximize time on the track, but when I had the stock rotors it was not possible to cool them enough without further driving in the pits. But I agree with DavidNJ's point that this is not a good solution, and certainly not scalable if many were to do it. Given how protective many Porsche owners are of their cars, I was surprised at this, but I've experienced it at events in Colorado and Utah, so it's not an isolated thing.

BTW, not trying to rail on the PCA guys - they run first class events with lots of safe track time. Just didn't expect it.
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