Brake upgrade selection
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,666
Likes: 2
From: Encinitas (San Diego), CA
I've tracked my current street/track S for thousands of track miles with stock rotors AND stock lines. My previous street/track S had steel lines. The race S had stock rotors and stock lines, then stock lines on left side and steel lines on right side (raced it like this too), and then steel lines all around. I can tell you from real experience that the lines make no difference, even in long hard races. Our OEM lines are good and may even be steel covered in rubber(haven't cut one to see), but regardless you (or I at least) can't feel a difference.
So save your money, and steel lines are more prone to failure so peace of mind keeping OEM.
So save your money, and steel lines are more prone to failure so peace of mind keeping OEM.
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,508
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, CA
My experience from various cars that I drove.
Good:
Spoon: Good touch and modulation.
T1R / J's Racing 6P: F&R Matched Pads
Brembo: The pads that comes with the kit won't fade but it lacks initial bite. Upgraded the pads and works well at the track with good modulation.
Not So Good:
Wilwood 6p: Tried various compound and was not happy with its performance and feel.
Good:
Spoon: Good touch and modulation.
T1R / J's Racing 6P: F&R Matched Pads
Brembo: The pads that comes with the kit won't fade but it lacks initial bite. Upgraded the pads and works well at the track with good modulation.
Not So Good:
Wilwood 6p: Tried various compound and was not happy with its performance and feel.
Banned
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,723
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Originally Posted by krazik,Sep 7 2007, 05:21 PM
explain to me how you can say something is lighter but not have less mass?
Physical dimensions have nothing to do with either.
And the pad IIRC is smaller than oem.
Physical dimensions have nothing to do with either.
And the pad IIRC is smaller than oem.
As far as the rotors go, they (wilwoods) are 2 piece as opposed to oem being single piece which contributes to lesser weight. The caliper is also lighter than stock so that makes a difference in weight. Unless you have weighed both rotors side by side, you cannot ASSume that it has less mass. I say this because, you have no idea which part of the kit has less weight than its OEM counterpart.
Banned
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,723
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Originally Posted by maxrev,Sep 7 2007, 06:20 PM
My experience from various cars that I drove.
Good:
Spoon: Good touch and modulation.
T1R / J's Racing 6P: F&R Matched Pads
Brembo: The pads that comes with the kit won't fade but it lacks initial bite. Upgraded the pads and works well at the track with good modulation.
Not So Good:
Wilwood 6p: Tried various compound and was not happy with its performance and feel.
Good:
Spoon: Good touch and modulation.
T1R / J's Racing 6P: F&R Matched Pads
Brembo: The pads that comes with the kit won't fade but it lacks initial bite. Upgraded the pads and works well at the track with good modulation.
Not So Good:
Wilwood 6p: Tried various compound and was not happy with its performance and feel.
1. Were the Brembo's 6 or 4 pot?
2. Slotted or drilled rotors?
3. Which rotors did you use with the Spoon kit?
Administrator
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 20,274
Likes: 4
From: Toronto, Canada
You aren't going to gain a great deal from a brake upgrade unless a couple of things are true:
1) The track is a hard braking track. Some are, some aren't. A set of race pads on Mosport is good for a whole season, maybe two of w2w racing. I have one braking zone. Other tracks are really hard on brakes, buttonwillow for example. If you burn through pads at an obscene rate then you are overworking the brakes as designed and a higher capacity system will help there.
2) You carry a lot of weight. If your car is heavy upgraded brakes will help your braking performance. The lighter your car the less work your brakes have to do to stop the mass.
3) If you run long races, like endurance races, the longer pad life will get you through an entire race.
4) If you have huge tires like 275+ wide your traction will overpower your brakes, you'll never be able to activate ABS or lock them.
Stock brakes are designed to perform well based on the weight of the car and the traction of the tires under light duty. Pads and fluid will allow them to do it more consistently over a longer and hotter duty cycle on DOT-R tires. If you reduce the weight of the car you can run bigger tires with the same system.
When you go out of bounds then you need to look at an upgrade but you aren't going to get much if you are still in the margin where stock brakes are designed to work. Examples might be a heavy car (ITR) or slicks or 300+ width tires or endurance racing. Excessive wear over a short time should be your guide. If you are only getting 2 or 3 events out of a set of pads/rotors then it's a sign.
1) The track is a hard braking track. Some are, some aren't. A set of race pads on Mosport is good for a whole season, maybe two of w2w racing. I have one braking zone. Other tracks are really hard on brakes, buttonwillow for example. If you burn through pads at an obscene rate then you are overworking the brakes as designed and a higher capacity system will help there.
2) You carry a lot of weight. If your car is heavy upgraded brakes will help your braking performance. The lighter your car the less work your brakes have to do to stop the mass.
3) If you run long races, like endurance races, the longer pad life will get you through an entire race.
4) If you have huge tires like 275+ wide your traction will overpower your brakes, you'll never be able to activate ABS or lock them.
Stock brakes are designed to perform well based on the weight of the car and the traction of the tires under light duty. Pads and fluid will allow them to do it more consistently over a longer and hotter duty cycle on DOT-R tires. If you reduce the weight of the car you can run bigger tires with the same system.
When you go out of bounds then you need to look at an upgrade but you aren't going to get much if you are still in the margin where stock brakes are designed to work. Examples might be a heavy car (ITR) or slicks or 300+ width tires or endurance racing. Excessive wear over a short time should be your guide. If you are only getting 2 or 3 events out of a set of pads/rotors then it's a sign.
Administrator
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 17,004
Likes: 7
From: Santa Cruz, CA, US
Originally Posted by trivium,Sep 7 2007, 12:06 PM
Actually- for the $850 it costs- there is one HUGE performance gain you can acquire from buying these. With the 4 pot kit you shed 28 or so pounds of unsprung weight. Need I say more?
[QUOTE=trivium,Sep 7 2007, 05:45 PM] As far as the rotors go, they (wilwoods) are 2 piece as opposed to oem being single piece which contributes to lesser weight. The caliper is also lighter than stock so that makes a difference in weight. Unless you have weighed both rotors side by side, you cannot ASSume
Administrator
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 17,004
Likes: 7
From: Santa Cruz, CA, US
Dave, thats still TBD, but I do think that a big change in HP (100s) can cause you to get out of the bounds of oem, but I'm not sure of this.
I will be reinstalling my ducts for laguna.
-Ry
I will be reinstalling my ducts for laguna.
-Ry
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 920
Likes: 0
From: Vallejo
Wilwood 4p
Most of the weight savings is in the caliper for the wilwoods. The rotors are bigger diameter and have more surface area, but have less mass as well. The pads are smaller than stock.
Ideally there is a newer 4 piston wilwood caliper that is bigger, and uses the correctly sized pistons, but nobody is using it in a kit yet.
Most of the weight savings is in the caliper for the wilwoods. The rotors are bigger diameter and have more surface area, but have less mass as well. The pads are smaller than stock.
Ideally there is a newer 4 piston wilwood caliper that is bigger, and uses the correctly sized pistons, but nobody is using it in a kit yet.
