I think I do that without thinking. Terminology aside I use the brake TO turn in at the end of braking. I might even if I rev match before the corner entry (if it allows me to be that early) brake with my left foot and regulate it all the way till late mid corner.

 

90% of the guys that don't threshold brake through turn-in believe they do I know I still have room for improvement. Seriously though, most of us would be embarrassed if our brake pressure graph was posted here.

 

I'm sure I am already releasing some brake pressure before turning in. Not to say I don't trail brake just pretty sure its not threshold to/past the turn in point. I work at it all the time but I also want to bring my car home!
As for the post where someone wanted 10/10ths the whole time, I don't think even Senna had that in him.

 

My point is that most of us are nowhere near 10/10ths from turn-in to brake release. We think we are though. Keep in mind I'm mostly discussing braking for low to medium speed corners. Threshold braking into a high speed corner can be counter productive because of chassis upset.

For most of us there's probably more lap time to be made in proper trail braking than in any other area.

I'm just trying to relate my experience so more of us will work on braking late enough that we really have to threshold brake to turn-in instead of releasing brake pressure to keep from over slowing at turn-in. Most drivers believe they are already doing this and when they see their first brake pressure plot they're shocked at how much they're giving up subconsciously. Many swear they are not releasing pressure before turn-in and then see the graph and realize they have work to do.

You also have to have enough speed at turn-in so you can trail brake heavily. This is the only way you get the braking and turning half circle arches on a g diagram and it's the only way to use all the traction available. This is one of the primary differences between us and a pro-level driver. I (think) I do this occasionally but a great driver uses the brakes the way a professional ballet dancer glides effortlessly across the dance floor with his partner in perfect time while making it look easy.

 

For sure. Maximizing corner entry speed and trail braking is the most difficult part of the corner to master. As Rob said, it is one of the most defining skills that separates us from a pro driver.

 

Some really good discussion here. Just watched this and felt it was relevant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_yHU_nwy1c

Recently I have been really working to focus on driving the car with my feet and simplifying steering inputs as much as possible and have been pretty amazed at the results. It is so easy to make steering corrections that just aren't needed trying to predict what the car will do. It is important to know what the car is going to do but it is very easy to get the prediction wrong. It is so easy to make unnecessary corrections transitioning into turn-in. There is so much to gain by just committing to your turn-in point and not slicing at the steering trying to get a feel of the grip.

Fully agree with robrob on late braking in this car. In the S2000 you can easily brake later than many other cars but that doesn't mean you are braking late or releasing the brakes in the most opportunistic way. I am far from maximizing my own braking but since it is something I focus heavily on it is always the first thing I notice riding along with someone else if they are braking too early. I feel that braking correctly in the S2000 starts as quite a long period completely terrifying yourself thinking you have left it too late and being surprised that the car still turns in. Slowly you get more and more comfortable with this and can do it without being terrified with more controlled brake release, and finally you can do it with incredibly controlled steering inputs that are in perfect balance with your feet. Even beyond that there is the ability to adjust your braking points based on the elevation change and whether you are headed uphill or downhill. It is VERY easy to brake way to early in both of these scenarios because headed uphill your braking point will be significantly later than on a flat surface, and headed downhill into a corner you of course will need to brake earlier, but you have to directly fight your instinct to brake early many many times before you will get comfortable doing this. I have quite a ways to go before I am happy with my own braking. All of the above is the ideal scenario. On the various tracks I have visited I feel I might have 1 or 2 corners where I can consistently get the most out of the car on turn in and under braking.

This is why you see professional drivers appearing to take different lines or slightly miss apexes and still go fast. It is extremely easy to brake a little bit early and maintain your line and hit your apex every time. But someone truly braking at the limit and releasing correctly will still be faster even if they miss their apex. And the ones doing all of this correctly and still getting their apex are usually the ones on pole.

 

Excellent post Andrew. I agree with everything you wrote



This is exactly how it happened for me. Summit Point's Turn 1 at 130+mph braking zoned downhill into a 160 degree turn and a 48mph apex. The first time I got the braking about right I thought I was going to overshoot and end up in the grass but the car turned and I had a slight slide from turn-in to just short of the apex when I completely released the brakes to get on the throttle. This is where a car that allows left foot braking helps because you can seamlessly go from a braking slide to a throttle slide with a little brake/throttle overlap. Getting the braking right is extremely satisfying.

I'm working on driving more with my feet too but I have a long way to go with playing with the handling balance using throttle in high speed corners. I'm better at adjusting brake pressure to manage under/oversteer.

 

i feel like I'd rather brake a bit early and not mess the corner up and work the exit that go super late on the brakes,
if I get in the ABS it usualy doesn't want to turn in except if I'm going left then it usualy gets loose
want to get a dirttrack car and learn to left footit!

 

Couldn't agree more. I think people focus too much on the correct line. Being able to drive your tires to their limit from corner entry to exit will net you much more time than having the correct line while not maximizing your traction. Of course you want to do both, but if you blow the apex it's not that big a deal. Focus on maintaining your momentum and using all your available traction whether you are taking the correct line or not.

 

I am glad we can at least agree on the important stuff.