Element Tuning Time Attack STI
+1 on that ! if he didnt lift off the throttle he could of go through the turn without problem.
Here are some before and after modified wing photos.
3yrs with this setup

first time out with this setup, from 10" to 17" modified stands.

Some aero guy from Track HQ also pointed out the cause might come from the weak carbon fiber trunk flexing.

Here are some before and after modified wing photos.
3yrs with this setup

first time out with this setup, from 10" to 17" modified stands.

Some aero guy from Track HQ also pointed out the cause might come from the weak carbon fiber trunk flexing.

here is other great info from a wing manufacturer about the wing, this was posted on Nasaforums:
Jim Dulaney here, with Fulcrum Aeroworks.
Several of our customers have sent this to my attention, and I've been following it as well.
First, the aerodynamics: If your wing was previously within an inch or two of the roofline, it was in relatively clean air already. Moving it above the roof line did minimal good to increase the wing's efficiency. Having the wing many inches above the roof-line is a myth that I've seen many cars believe. In this link, you can see that the air traveling across the roof follows the rear window downward partially.
http://sokudostyle.files.wordpress.com/ ... st33-3.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Most cars that don't have a near-vertical back window perform similarly. Fastbacks are even better at having clean air just inches above the deck-lid.
My point: I don't believe that raising the wing caused more aerodynamic drag. The result must be due to mechanical vibrations.
Next, the mount: We too use a carbon saddle for the wing. Until now, my concern has been that the wing might crush around the realatively small saddle. At 170 mph, our wing is capable of 1000 pounds of downforce. I believe the APR is less (by the way, which APR wing, I'd like to crunch the numbers?). The area that this broke doesn't appear to be due to compression, so it again points to either mechanical vibration, or shearing due to drag. Regarding adding kevlar to the mount, we've seen kevlar fail in shear many times on body panels. Combined with the fact that Kevlar is extremely difficult to cut and smooth for a cosmetic part, is why we haven't used it.
Jim Dulaney here, with Fulcrum Aeroworks.
Several of our customers have sent this to my attention, and I've been following it as well.
First, the aerodynamics: If your wing was previously within an inch or two of the roofline, it was in relatively clean air already. Moving it above the roof line did minimal good to increase the wing's efficiency. Having the wing many inches above the roof-line is a myth that I've seen many cars believe. In this link, you can see that the air traveling across the roof follows the rear window downward partially.
http://sokudostyle.files.wordpress.com/ ... st33-3.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Most cars that don't have a near-vertical back window perform similarly. Fastbacks are even better at having clean air just inches above the deck-lid.
My point: I don't believe that raising the wing caused more aerodynamic drag. The result must be due to mechanical vibrations.
Next, the mount: We too use a carbon saddle for the wing. Until now, my concern has been that the wing might crush around the realatively small saddle. At 170 mph, our wing is capable of 1000 pounds of downforce. I believe the APR is less (by the way, which APR wing, I'd like to crunch the numbers?). The area that this broke doesn't appear to be due to compression, so it again points to either mechanical vibration, or shearing due to drag. Regarding adding kevlar to the mount, we've seen kevlar fail in shear many times on body panels. Combined with the fact that Kevlar is extremely difficult to cut and smooth for a cosmetic part, is why we haven't used it.
Originally Posted by krazik,Apr 14 2010, 03:27 PM
last I checked just turning fast laps doesn't always mean you're a good driver. I don't know phil and I don't mean to bash him too much, but...
Just as the post above yours points out, losing the wing would have made the car more of handful sure, but if that was so pronounced he would have spun the car in the corner immediately after he lost the wing. he seemed to make it thru that corner fine.
IMO there are many problems that I see in the video all of which combined caused him to crash:
sitting way too far back (arms too straight), much hard to feel what the car is doing when you're steering with your shoulders.
adjusting belts, was this an early lap? tires cold?
nervous and fast steering
car doesn't get out of shape till the apex, seems to turn in ok.
as soon as the car steps out, he lifts
losing the wing is questionable. this probably would have just made the car a bit more lively, but not something that would make the car -that- unpredictable.
wings or not, 95+% of a street car's cornering speed is from mechanical grip, not aero.
Just as the post above yours points out, losing the wing would have made the car more of handful sure, but if that was so pronounced he would have spun the car in the corner immediately after he lost the wing. he seemed to make it thru that corner fine.
IMO there are many problems that I see in the video all of which combined caused him to crash:
sitting way too far back (arms too straight), much hard to feel what the car is doing when you're steering with your shoulders.
adjusting belts, was this an early lap? tires cold?
nervous and fast steering
car doesn't get out of shape till the apex, seems to turn in ok.
as soon as the car steps out, he lifts
losing the wing is questionable. this probably would have just made the car a bit more lively, but not something that would make the car -that- unpredictable.
wings or not, 95+% of a street car's cornering speed is from mechanical grip, not aero.
Sorry to hear and see this. Crazy how the rear just looks like it instantly lost traction.. I haven't done track stuff in real life but I have done iRacing.com at VIR and that section your in is intense. If I remember correctly theres a slight rise going through that curve?
Hi guys, was discussing this breakagewith a voltex dealer and he gave me this piece of information which he claims was told to him by the folks at voltex.
Wings come in either wet or dry carbon but the carbon joint attached to the wing stands is always made from dry carbon. This has apparently always been the case as strength is critical there.
Breakages have occured at that joint (an example named was the cusco wrx) due to a very high horsepower machine hitting extremely high speeds resulting in huge downforce ultimately resulting in the joint failing. A local owner of high powered wrx at a racetrack also experienced joint breakage with a voltex type 3 wing.
According to the dealer, voltex has since altered the joint design to strengthen it. The local owner of the wrx then purchased the wing with strengthened joints and never had issues thereafter.
Any truth in this matter?
Wings come in either wet or dry carbon but the carbon joint attached to the wing stands is always made from dry carbon. This has apparently always been the case as strength is critical there.
Breakages have occured at that joint (an example named was the cusco wrx) due to a very high horsepower machine hitting extremely high speeds resulting in huge downforce ultimately resulting in the joint failing. A local owner of high powered wrx at a racetrack also experienced joint breakage with a voltex type 3 wing.
According to the dealer, voltex has since altered the joint design to strengthen it. The local owner of the wrx then purchased the wing with strengthened joints and never had issues thereafter.
Any truth in this matter?
Originally Posted by c32b,Apr 15 2010, 05:35 AM
Breakages have occured at that joint (an example named was the cusco wrx) due to a very high horsepower machine hitting extremely high speeds resulting in huge downforce ultimately resulting in the joint failing. A local owner of high powered wrx at a racetrack also experienced joint breakage with a voltex type 3 wing.
Here's a video that starts with my wing still functioning, it's off by the end. No huge change in driving. You can tell I'm struggling a bit more that I was at the beginning. But ultimately letting off was probably the cause of the severity of that crash.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrRFlbu9jZk [/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrRFlbu9jZk [/media]
All good points,
But, the main point of the post was for those who have similar wings mounted "high", check for integrity of the brackets.
Whether your driving technique is good or not, loosing downforce that you expected to be there and then it's not may or may not cause you to go off the track. Even F1 drivers have crashed numerous times after loosing front wings.
Sure is!
What kind of "high-performance" parts company would advertise its products like that? Not very confidence-inspiring.
The bottom line is, if a bracket is properly designed to withstands forces in all directions, it will not fail under intended use at any track speed.
What amazes me it's these companies don't even have downforce data. Is it all guess work? Some CFD modeling could at least give you an approximation of what the wing can do.
Something like this
http://www.reverie.ltd.uk/225mm_chord_wingdata.php
But, the main point of the post was for those who have similar wings mounted "high", check for integrity of the brackets.
Whether your driving technique is good or not, loosing downforce that you expected to be there and then it's not may or may not cause you to go off the track. Even F1 drivers have crashed numerous times after loosing front wings.
Originally Posted by PedalFaster,Apr 15 2010, 07:21 AM
That's extremely sketchy if true -- it's basically saying the wing is designed to fail if you exceed a certain speed, yet somehow I doubt the sales literature for the wing has a disclaimer saying "Caution: Don't use this wing above 120 mph".
What kind of "high-performance" parts company would advertise its products like that? Not very confidence-inspiring.
The bottom line is, if a bracket is properly designed to withstands forces in all directions, it will not fail under intended use at any track speed.
What amazes me it's these companies don't even have downforce data. Is it all guess work? Some CFD modeling could at least give you an approximation of what the wing can do.
Something like this
http://www.reverie.ltd.uk/225mm_chord_wingdata.php
didnt Evasive time attack EVO broke a wing last year too ? and went off the track after that, this really shows how important a wing can do for a car on a track.
I really think the trunk has something to do with the wing failure, some of the carbon trunk I see in this market is way too soft, too flexable, and probably will cause wing to vibrates a lot, makes it unstable for high downforce. Guys with full time track setup really need to think about remounting these wings on the solid platforms other than on the trunk to eliminate some of the cause for the wing fail.
I really think the trunk has something to do with the wing failure, some of the carbon trunk I see in this market is way too soft, too flexable, and probably will cause wing to vibrates a lot, makes it unstable for high downforce. Guys with full time track setup really need to think about remounting these wings on the solid platforms other than on the trunk to eliminate some of the cause for the wing fail.
So Phil, who has consistently run just under 2:00 at VIR full and has won/ placed top on time attack competition crashed due to his poor driving?
look at the goofy dual wing tC or the Factor X NSX, they both have insane amounts of horsepower, of course they turn fast laps.
Regardless of why/how this happened. It sucks to stuff a car into a wall that you've worked hard on.






. 
