Yup. I believe the same applies here for the s2k. Also, correction on the e36m3 - 1999 USDM models came with 225/235 stagger. The car is definitely better square.

Let's go with a slightly more relate-able analogy.

ND-MX5 has 50/50 weight distribution and comes square with options of 195 / 205 / or 215 square. The s2000 is like a "big mx-5." It should also be on a more "square" setup.

FRS/BRZ/FT-86 also comes 215 square.

The s2k isn't a torque monster, and doesn't have some weird mid-engine design with a 35/65 weight distribution that should drive having a staggered setup. It's setup to understeer for the driving masses.

 

But its not, the S is a much more dynamic handler, over steering off throttle with a factory stagger and pushing on throttle, which a lot of that has to do with the diff as well as the balance point of the car, which unlike those other cars listed, has a more rearward weight bias. None of those cars are mid front engine, not even the Miata. The ap2 is the closest to managing a square set up from the factory with its more nose heavy bias and suspension changes, but definitely not the Ap1, especially the first 2 years due to the suspension bias along with the rear toe geometry pickup points. I currently am on a 255/315 stagger with a stock 00-01 front bar and ap2 rear bar and all the toe/roll center/aftermarket suspension correction upgrades available and can still easily induce off throttle over steer in my ap1 if I want. I like the balance point of my set up, I can run extremely hot/late braking into a turn weighting the front and have the car just plant and settle itself with maint throttle and squirt it out with no push. Drive it a lot like a Porsche. Now if i ran a big rear wing, I would likely find the front end grip lacking and need to re calibrate some things.

This debate is getting a little silly at this point.

 

Okay, now imagine if your car wanted to push mid to late corner unless you added more throttle than you do now, but stayed composed in the rear rather than letting go or pushing instead... and now you have an idea of how a square S2000 track car can work.

 

Ok I can imagine your hypothetical, but I cant relate in my circumstance. That's never been an issue for me at really any stage of my ap1's modification level. The only time ...and I mean the only time I get front end push is when I try, like staying on the throttle and cranking it into a sharp slower speed turn as how any car would behave in such a scenario. Everywhere else its balanced or over steer ineducable at any point in the turn, that's how my car behaves at the edge of adhesion. But again when I track the car its in roadster form, not hard top and a wing. I run the car the way i run it on the street, as its more fun/satisfying and challenging that way to me. I do run a front and side splitter and rear diffuser and rear venting if it does anything other then look cool. Now If I wanted to make it a dedicated track only car I would throw a hard top on it, gut it and run a big rear wing and move to a 275 or 285 up front and keep the 315's out back. You take your square set up S remove the rear wing and run it 125 mph down a strait, get hard on the brakes for an increasing radius turn at 70mph turn and come out the other side tell me how your feeling about your set up. I will tell you if I took my car as it sits trading for 255's out back and took said corner at the speed I normally do, id no doubt be ass end off the track before I got to the decreasing radius part. Every track is different and has its more challenging corners to get through fast. Set the car up for most the corners best, and the rest is do what ever makes you feel confident and ease of consistency, that's how you will go the quickest at the end of the day.

 

Are you familiar with rear trailing arms and the dynamic toe curves that that suspension geometry creates? The character you describe above is not unique to the s2000 (even if it is dual a-arm with different geometry). The characteristic you describe was found on bmw 2002, datsun 510, bmw e21, e30, e36, and even the e46 due to the inherent suspension geometry design of rear trailing arms.... the e36/8 m-coupe (clown shoe) was notorious for the exact behavior you're describing, with it's much short wheel base, stiffer chassis, 50/50 weight distribution, factory lsd - it even had a 225/245 tire stagger from the factory (and of course, the fast track setups use 255 square....).

I'll quote myself AGAIN, because i like reading my own posts over and over to make up for those that don't even read them the first time...

I'll also quote the OP since he started this thread and it is after all his car setup that we're discussing...


Only if you're debating the wrong points...

 

^^^Sure i'm familiar with the stock rear geometry on our cars, I modded and tuned mine. I've had the seat time to figure it out after 15 years of flogging it.

Well if I wasn't so bored, think how dead this thread would have been. And you will have one more thread to check on tomorrow at work when your blurry eyed and ready to fall asleep. Your welcome

 

 

No Randy Pobst in-car video!?