hard dog rollbar question
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 517
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Originally Posted by ScandinavianFlick' timestamp='1376505055' post='22724309
[quote name='SlowTeg' timestamp='1376504019' post='22724256']
[quote name='ScandinavianFlick' timestamp='1376503415' post='22724228']
Sorry, I should have also specified that most organizations will not let you run an aftermarket roll bar with 3-point belts. You'll need race seats and harnesses with it.
[quote name='ScandinavianFlick' timestamp='1376503415' post='22724228']
Sorry, I should have also specified that most organizations will not let you run an aftermarket roll bar with 3-point belts. You'll need race seats and harnesses with it.
[/quote]
This is region specific. Of the three different regions I've ran with in PCA, they didn't require that you have a harness and a race seat, if using a rollbar.
Originally Posted by rohde88' timestamp='1376577032' post='22725790
[quote name='JJ7' timestamp='1376506946' post='22724391']
Safety equipment isnt mix n match. Rollbar, harness, HANS and seat OR OEM 3pt. Not pick 2 or 3. Otherwise your likely making your car less safe in most all situations.
Safety equipment isnt mix n match. Rollbar, harness, HANS and seat OR OEM 3pt. Not pick 2 or 3. Otherwise your likely making your car less safe in most all situations.
[/quote]
Not to confuse anyone, you CAN run a harness without a HNRS system... it's just not advisable.
[/quote]
PCA (Mid-Atlantic) only requires that you pass the broomstick test with your rollbar (except VIR, which also requires a full-width bar). However, if you want to run top down you must have arm restraints, though there is a set you can buy that works with 3-point seatbelts. BMWCCA and ACNA both require seats, harnesses, and arm restraints regarldess around me.
Also, a rollbar with OE 3-points and stock seats is not necessarily any less safe than the OE roll hoops run that way.
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As the above posters have said:
Rollbar rules are highly track and region specific.
PCA and SCCA may let you run roll bar without harnesses and race seat.
Some PCA groups consider OEM S2000 roll hoops and windshield A-frame to be structural and "ok" stock S2000s under a Boxster provision, even without a hardtop.
The best option is to find a local S2000 driver and pick their brain.
I personally like wearing harnesses and HANS, but there are times when I'm in a completely street car where there isn't that option. I just add extra safety margin driving, knowing that I can't do anything about the other people on the track. I give overly aggressive DE drivers a little extra space as it isn't a race.
Rollbar rules are highly track and region specific.
PCA and SCCA may let you run roll bar without harnesses and race seat.
Some PCA groups consider OEM S2000 roll hoops and windshield A-frame to be structural and "ok" stock S2000s under a Boxster provision, even without a hardtop.
The best option is to find a local S2000 driver and pick their brain.
I personally like wearing harnesses and HANS, but there are times when I'm in a completely street car where there isn't that option. I just add extra safety margin driving, knowing that I can't do anything about the other people on the track. I give overly aggressive DE drivers a little extra space as it isn't a race.
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Joined: Aug 2004
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For those organizations, no additional safety equipment is mandated for cars with a structure that provides significant rollover protection. The "roadster bars" on Loti, Vipers, Vettes, etc fall into this category. Most removable hardtops do not, especially the s2k's. Unfortunately, in a rollover it's only there to fold itself neatly around what's left of your skull 
Sorry to be gruesome, but the crashworthiness of the OEM top is a persistent myth that needs dispelling.
Sorry to be gruesome, but the crashworthiness of the OEM top is a persistent myth that needs dispelling.
http://www.pca.org/activities/driver...standards.aspx
Driver's Education Minimum Standards
The DE Advisory Team, as the name implies, is advisory in nature. The team's first task was to collaborate on a set of Minimum Standards to be used as a common set of safety based rules upon which to build and improve regional DE programs. These Standards were designed to be basic in nature, with an emphasis on proven safe practices, and are designed to be expanded upon as each region tailors their own programs to their entrants. Download PCA DE Minimum Standards.
Definition: A Drivers Education (a.k.a. Drivers Ed or DE) is an instructional speed event that is characterized by continuous lap driving with passing to be permitted as allowed by these rules. A DRIVERS ED IS NOT RACING. There shall be no official timing as the event is intended as instructional only, with no competition. There are no award points assigned and no trophies associated with DE events. While non-competitive, safety equipment is still required as outlined in these rules. All cars entered in the event must have fenders attached to the vehicle body at all four corners.
Cabriolet/Convertible Cars: Any make of car delivered with factory installed roll over protection meets the minimum standards for PCA DE events. In these cars we recommend the soft-top be in the up position or the hard top installed. If the top is in the down position, restraint system* must be used. An SFI and/or FIA approved arm
If a car does not have factory installed roll over protection, a roll bar or roll cage must be installed, which meets the "broomstick" rule (the driver's helmeted head is below a bar placed on top of the roll bar and windshield). Design, installation and materials of roll bars or cages and their installation must meet PCA Club Racing specifications, contained in Appendix A-Roll Cage Specifications of the PCA Club Racing Rules. All targa tops must be installed unless there is addition roll over protection. All sunroofs must be in the closed position. The windshield alone is not considered to be factory roll over protection.
*Velocity Management, Inc. is a source for the SFI approved arm restraint system for use with the OEM three point belts. Contact info is www.gofastbesafe.com and the part number is QE3ptArm
The DE Advisory Team, as the name implies, is advisory in nature. The team's first task was to collaborate on a set of Minimum Standards to be used as a common set of safety based rules upon which to build and improve regional DE programs. These Standards were designed to be basic in nature, with an emphasis on proven safe practices, and are designed to be expanded upon as each region tailors their own programs to their entrants. Download PCA DE Minimum Standards.
Definition: A Drivers Education (a.k.a. Drivers Ed or DE) is an instructional speed event that is characterized by continuous lap driving with passing to be permitted as allowed by these rules. A DRIVERS ED IS NOT RACING. There shall be no official timing as the event is intended as instructional only, with no competition. There are no award points assigned and no trophies associated with DE events. While non-competitive, safety equipment is still required as outlined in these rules. All cars entered in the event must have fenders attached to the vehicle body at all four corners.
Cabriolet/Convertible Cars: Any make of car delivered with factory installed roll over protection meets the minimum standards for PCA DE events. In these cars we recommend the soft-top be in the up position or the hard top installed. If the top is in the down position, restraint system* must be used. An SFI and/or FIA approved arm
If a car does not have factory installed roll over protection, a roll bar or roll cage must be installed, which meets the "broomstick" rule (the driver's helmeted head is below a bar placed on top of the roll bar and windshield). Design, installation and materials of roll bars or cages and their installation must meet PCA Club Racing specifications, contained in Appendix A-Roll Cage Specifications of the PCA Club Racing Rules. All targa tops must be installed unless there is addition roll over protection. All sunroofs must be in the closed position. The windshield alone is not considered to be factory roll over protection.
*Velocity Management, Inc. is a source for the SFI approved arm restraint system for use with the OEM three point belts. Contact info is www.gofastbesafe.com and the part number is QE3ptArm
http://www.porschepark.org/events/de.php
Harness/Seat Belt: Please review this update about this important equipment.
Group I-II: 3-pt stock seat belt. 4-pt harness with application tags applicable to car (Porsches are not allowed to have 4-pt harness), 5-pt/6-pt with race or sport seat with applicable slots through the seat back and bottom seat.
Group III: 5-pt/6-pt. harness or better is mandatory with race seat
All shoulder harness attached to roll or harness bar with the exception of 914s.
Occupied passenger seat needs equivalent system or better.
Group I-II: 3-pt stock seat belt. 4-pt harness with application tags applicable to car (Porsches are not allowed to have 4-pt harness), 5-pt/6-pt with race or sport seat with applicable slots through the seat back and bottom seat.
Group III: 5-pt/6-pt. harness or better is mandatory with race seat
All shoulder harness attached to roll or harness bar with the exception of 914s.
Occupied passenger seat needs equivalent system or better.
The local BMW club doesn't allow any convertibles of any kind (even with roll bar) due to insurance. YMMV
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