I know what toe is, re read what I said. This is getting stupid and frustraiting.

 

That's not what happens. AP1 starts with rear toe-in, and the rears toe in further with suspension compression.


This shows front toe, same applies at rear. Front of tires pointed inward = toe in (self-descriptive).

 

Ok, so this is where you’re wrong. Yes, so I was describing it right. Rear starts with toe IN and as compresses toe zeros out and goes positive. That’s real world experience buddy, anyone can re create this simply by pushing down on the car from its weighted fully position. Anyone who disagrees with that as it pertains to a stock ap1 chassis is simply misinformed or never bothered to investigate. I’m sorry zdan. Rear toes OUT as suspension reaches bottoming out and I will take that to the grave.

This is why I gave the advice I gave to the OP and why he describe the car losing adhesion on corner exit wile car is loaded, the rear toe is now further OUT then it was before causing the rear to come out sooner. If it came IN as you think, it would create quite the opposite effect, the rear would tend to hold better as the outside wheel path is a negative/against the road path, think about this logically Dan???? More toe IN as it was before is why it was suggested and makes sense why he felt the rear break lose more after adding more postive toe! I'm sorry to blow your whole concept of tuning reality here.

 

I'm certain the AP1 rear toe's in quite a bit under compression there is no way it'd toe-out

I thought what the mythical "bumpsteer" was is when the shock loses compression (hits a bump) and the toe changes also.

 

I agree with junky that toe in&out on the rear is the same as if you just transplanted that diagram of the front wheels to the rear. When they are rotating forward, if they poke in towards the car, that's toe IN. In which case, he is right, the stock alignment specs say to have toe IN and under compression start to toe OUT.

Some ascii diagramming here (Top is going towards front of car).

Rear tires start off like this:

/----\


They end like this when compressed:

|----|

Or is it the opposite of what I think? If so, I'm REALLY glad I'm running 0 toe in on the rear... why would the stock start toe-in and toe-in FURTHER. That's like the worst of both words. It's the best if you start out at 0 toe in that case (more stable in turn, less resistance on straights)

 

At 2" lower then stock hight, Ive put the car on the rack and seen that the car in fact toes out under compression from that point forth.

 

Thank you!

 

It is not that hard to figure it out, whichever arm runs smallest circle will pull

 

Measured with longacre bump steer gauge:
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/817...-my-stock-ap1/

Measured with alignment rack:
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/163...of-bump-steer/

Garage measurements:
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/883...nyone-have-it/

Verified by many racers on this forum. Rear toe in under compression.

 

excerpt: "From stock height to 3" of compression, I got 0.42 inches toe in."

Here's some info from alignments I had both before and after my coilover install.

I've calculated that 23mm of lowering (or in this case bump) in the front resulted in an additional -.6 degrees of camber and -.18 degrees per side of toe (out). In the rear 28mm resulted in -.7 degress of camber and .11 degrees of toe (in).

I do my own alignments in my garage at home with basic measuring tapes and digital levels. I don't have a bump steer gauge. I decided to measure rear bump steer for the hell of it one day and that's all the info I could gather and it was good enough for what I was doing.
I found that I gained 1/8" of total toe in for every inch I compressed the suspension, starting from 1" above static ride height.


Troof.