The above pic is of my car after installing roll center adjuster lower ball joints. The bottom of the lower arm is weighted on the jack as if a wheel is installed. Do you really think you're going to gain enough negative camber by raising the lower arm 1/4" to make removal worthwhile?

 

Keep in mind you will be lowering the from of the car by a small amount with the version 2 s1 joint as well. So anti-roll bar is probably the more logical way to increase the front roll stiffness and retain stock ride height. The common thought process with roll center seems to be the front has a little less roll stiffness due to the geometry compared to the rear. So raising the roll center in the front can help increase front roll stiffness slightly. You would have to raise the roll center pretty significantly to bring it directly in line or go beyond the center of gravity so I don't think there is really a worry of it having an inverse effect actually. Just a concern of how much roll stiffness you want on a particular end of the car.

Currently I am using the version 2 S1 joint with 9mm of front correction and 12mm correction in the rear because I use a staggered 225/255 tire setup. The theory here being increasing rear roll stiffness slightly more than in the front should help the car rotate a bit in lower speed corners, and this definitely seems to be the case compared to the stock suspension with the exact same tires. When I go to a square setup I will most likely add the 4mm plate to bring it to 12mm of correction all around. And if I wanted any additional roll stiffness in the front I would do it with an anti-roll bar.

 

You will not "upset" the cars geometry by removing the additional 12mm plate. With the plate you will have raised the front roll center and increased the front roll stiffness. Most with a square setup add around 12mm of correction total to the front, you have almost double that, possibly increasing your front roll stiffness more than you want.

Also depending on your coil overs, you may not gain any shock travel with roll center correction. If your ride height is controlled by adjusting a separate lower perch to raise or lower the shock in the lower mount (Ohlins DFV, Tein SRC, etc.), then your travel isn't going to change.

 

If you install front roll centers and change nothing else you will actually raise the front knuckles and wheels which will lower the car. The upper arm angle will change and will shift the instant center closer to the wheel but the roll center and cg will both come down the same amount (normally you would adjust your coilovers to raise the car back to its original height which would change the angle of the lower arm and raise the roll center). Lowering only the front will increase rake because the rear won't change.



Our two axle Honda S2000 has two roll centers, one aligned over each axle. The roll center is the point the chassis rolls around when it leans around a corner. It's found by extending the axes of the suspension arms until they intersect. A straight line is then drawn from this point back to the tire's contact patch. The intersection of this line and the vehicle centerline is the roll center.

 

and one of the effects of raising roll center is it acts like a spring rate increase in the front roll bar right?

Stiffening the front sway bar or a similar effect sounds like one of the last things I want to do on my stock cr (225/255 setup) as that will increase the understeer up front. At my most recent outing at SOW, the understeer was much much more prominent than Buttonwillow or Thunderhill.

Hmm How can I gain the negative camber adjustment range I'm looking for without affecting the roll center?

Get S2s and shave down the aluminum body?

 

Thanks for clarifying Rob.

Look for a set of the version 1 S1s without the roll center correction, or look into the other brands. The roll center correction of the version 2 S1 isn't part of the flat plate it is part of the opening that holds the joint.

There are quite a few options out there for increasing the camber adjustment range with no effect on roll center.

 

The s1s don't solve the problem of enough camber, it's still +|1| negative camber

what difference does it make where the height in the camber joint is taken out, the spacing/overall thickness is what moves the roll center.

So far this what is available:
Megan/Hardrace - i've been down that path and I don't like how they can't even pay even enough attention to the castle nut/cotter pin alignment
Spoon
SBC - from what I understand it goes out of spec quite easily
Buddy Club p1 - which also messes with roll center
Challenge Offset bushings

 

Look for a set of the version 1 S2s or whatever it was called.

You can't take height out of the version 2. That is why I mentioned it.





The additional 9mm isn't in the flat plate, it is an offset in the area that the joint mounts. Taking 9mm out of the mounting plate probably isn't a good idea.

 

You can also have a machine shop make some offset housings for the oem ball joints. Press out stock assemblies from housings and install in machined pieces.

 

I have seen both.

If memory serves me correct, the ver1 the balljoint is flush with the bottom of the aluminum housing

In ver2 the balljoint is deeper than the aluminum housing

That's why I I believe some of the body can be machined out


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk