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remove steering power assist

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Old Sep 24, 2013 | 04:24 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by CKit
Don't you want to lower caster and not increase it to lighten the steering?
I thought u would want to up caster to make it feel more nimble
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Old Sep 24, 2013 | 04:29 AM
  #12  
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Caster

Caster is the angle between the steering axis and the vertical axis as viewed from the side of the car. Caster affects straight-line stability and "camber gain". Positive caster is when the top of the steering axis is tilted back (steering axis intersects the ground in front of the tire contact patch). Negative caster is when the top of the steering axis is tilted forward (steering axis intersects the ground behind the tire contact patch). I have never seen negative caster used, and I do not believe it is beneficial in automobile suspension geometry. Therefore, for the rest of this section, when I refer to caster, I am talking about positive caster.

To visualize caster, think about the wheels of a shopping cart. The steering axis of the wheel intersects the ground far ahead of where the wheel touches the ground. As a result, the wheel is essentially dragged behind the steering axis. This keeps the wheel moving straight. If the steering axis intersected the ground at the same spot that the wheel touched the ground, then there would be no caster effect. The wheel would be free to spin around the steering axis as long as it was not held in place by some other force.

Unlike in a shopping cart, the steering axis on a car is placed close to the hub of the wheel. Therefore, the only way to make the steering axis intersect the ground ahead of the tire contact patch is to tilt the steering axis. The more the axis is tilted (in the positive caster direction), the greater the caster effect.

Large caster settings increase the tendency of the front wheels to center themselves. This tendency is mainly due to the camber gain that occurs when the steering axis is tilted and the wheels are turned. Camber gain involved with caster is not easy to visualize. Think about the extreme case where the steering axis is tilted to the point where it is horizontal. When you turn the steering wheel, the front wheels would stand up on their edges. If you turn left, the left tire will stand on its outer edge, and the right tire will stand on its inner edge. If you turn right, the left tire will stand on its inner edge the right on its outer edge. The same type of camber gain, only on a smaller scale, takes place with less caster. This camber gain is exactly what you want in a corner. Read the previous section on camber to see what it is and why it’s beneficial.

When the tires stand up on their edges, the front of the car is actually raised up. This is why the wheels "center themselves" when you let go of the steering wheel. The weight of the car pushes the wheels flat on the ground, which resets the steering. This improves high-speed stability because it keeps the steering firmly in the center position. However, it is difficult to turn a car with a large caster setting because, while turning, you are actually lifting the front of the car with the steering. This effect is most visible in luxury sedans, where high-speed stability is important and sophisticated power steering makes up for the extra steering effort. If you watch one of these cars as the wheels turn to full lock (maximum steering angle), you will see the front end of the car rise slightly.

Increased caster is advantageous for racing and, in some cases, street driving. The only disadvantage is the added steering effort. While camber gain due to caster is generally good for increasing the grip of the front tires in a corner, too much camber gain will cause the tires to heat up, lose grip, and wear out prematurely. Therefore, do not use more than a few degrees of caster. If your car uses a MacPherson Strut suspension, it may be necessary to modify or install new strut tower mounts to be able to adjust caster.
http://www.240edge.com/performance/tuning-caster.html

More caster = heavier steering and more difficult to pull car off center.
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Old Sep 24, 2013 | 04:58 AM
  #13  
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CKit is correct. You can also read more about it at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_angle


Positive caster angle
The pivot points of the steering are angled such that a line drawn through them intersects the road surface slightly ahead of the contact patch of the tire on the pavement. The purpose of this is to provide a degree of self-centering for the steering - the wheel casters around in order to trail behind the axis of steering. This makes a car easier to drive and improves its directional stability (reducing its tendency to wander). Excessive caster angle will make the steering heavier and less responsive, although, in racing, large caster angles are used to improve camber gain in cornering. Caster angles over 7 degrees with radial tires are common. Power steering is usually necessary to overcome the jacking effect from the high caster angle.
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Old Sep 24, 2013 | 05:49 AM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by s2000ellier
CKit is correct. You can also read more about it at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_angle


Positive caster angle
The pivot points of the steering are angled such that a line drawn through them intersects the road surface slightly ahead of the contact patch of the tire on the pavement. The purpose of this is to provide a degree of self-centering for the steering - the wheel casters around in order to trail behind the axis of steering. This makes a car easier to drive and improves its directional stability (reducing its tendency to wander). Excessive caster angle will make the steering heavier and less responsive, although, in racing, large caster angles are used to improve camber gain in cornering. Caster angles over 7 degrees with radial tires are common. Power steering is usually necessary to overcome the jacking effect from the high caster angle.
huh guess I was wrong. I guess I just cant really feel a difference with the electric power steering
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Old Sep 24, 2013 | 09:54 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by CKit
Don't you want to lower caster and not increase it to lighten the steering?
Doh! You are right. My caster was maxed from my alignment when the eps was working. I was running the same alignment specs without the eps.
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Old Sep 25, 2013 | 02:43 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by WynnS123
Originally Posted by CKit' timestamp='1380021143' post='22793529
Don't you want to lower caster and not increase it to lighten the steering?
Doh! You are right. My caster was maxed from my alignment when the eps was working. I was running the same alignment specs without the eps.
Well, that's why we have this forum! I can't tell you how many things over the years you guys have helped me get straight. It's a great place to get good information.
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Old Sep 25, 2013 | 08:56 AM
  #17  
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heh the first time we tried it shad also gave me the car at max caster. LOL that wasn't fun.

yeah you want min caster.
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Old Sep 25, 2013 | 09:20 AM
  #18  
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Do you think the benefit of gutting the power steering (which i assume is weight savings and potential feedback improvements) outweighs the benefit of more castor?
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Old Sep 25, 2013 | 02:58 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by JJ7
Do you think the benefit of gutting the power steering (which i assume is weight savings and potential feedback improvements) outweighs the benefit of more castor?
My thoughts exactly.
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Old Sep 25, 2013 | 05:15 PM
  #20  
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I have gutted the steering rack on my S2000 race car and find that it works great. I do not find the steering heavy, though I have never raced an S2000 with the power steering intact. I have a street S2000 and don't find the difference huge, but the race car is never on the street. I have not checked the castor yet, though I have been racing it for 2 years. (I bought a castor gauge early this year, but have not used it) I am used to racing a Triumph TR3, which has no castor adjustment and heavy steering, especially with 9 inch cantilever slicks. The S2000 is has lighter steering than the TR3.

On the track and going fast, I would not want the steering too light, but we each have our driving styles and preferences. The faster you go, the more slip there is and steering effort is less.

I had a cheepo aluminum steering wheel initially, but replaced it after racing at New Hampshire Motorsports Park last year. We bent the wheel. Probably would not have happened with power steering. I have a Sparco wheel since then and it is still straight.

The stock box is very heavy. I weighed it before and after, but did not write it down. My recollection is that it was significant (20# plus)

I would not gut the box with a street car. Not only would you have possible DOT issues or liability in the of a serious accident, but low speed parking lot maneuvers would likely be difficult.
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