S2000 Aerodynamics
Joined: Jan 2011
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From: Mt. ________
Great images! You have to be careful though saying "generate downforce" as most simple aero setups are likely just reducing or neutralizing lift.
Proper aero that creates sustained downforce is a much more complicated world I think, and even good results in the wind tunnel don't mean good results on track.
ASM had this crazy raised splitter section on their No. 2 car for awhile:
Posted by GoTuning: "It was something they tested in 2008. It didn't work on the car. Testing showed no additional downforce and decreased radiator cooling efficiency. That's why aero testing is important, just because it looks cool and works on an F1 car, doesn't mean it'll work in every application. "
Proper aero that creates sustained downforce is a much more complicated world I think, and even good results in the wind tunnel don't mean good results on track.
ASM had this crazy raised splitter section on their No. 2 car for awhile:
Posted by GoTuning: "It was something they tested in 2008. It didn't work on the car. Testing showed no additional downforce and decreased radiator cooling efficiency. That's why aero testing is important, just because it looks cool and works on an F1 car, doesn't mean it'll work in every application. "
Thread Starter
Former Moderator
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: West Virginia
You have to be careful though saying "generate downforce" as most simple aero setups are likely just reducing or neutralizing lift.
I agree with you if you're talking about a spoiler that's reducing lift, but if a nose dive plane is generating force in a downward direction then it's creating downforce even if the car's overall aerodynamic vector is lift.
Joined: Jul 2009
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From: Professor Touge Emeritus
You have to be careful though saying "generate downforce" as most simple aero setups are likely just reducing or neutralizing lift.
I agree with you if you're talking about a spoiler that's reducing lift, but if a nose dive plane is generating force in a downward direction then it's creating downforce even if the car's overall aerodynamic vector is lift.
If lift is a factor of "3" and wing 'downforce' (or lift-reduction) is a factor of 3, does that mean the net gain is "increased downforce" or "reduced lift", or are these really opposite sides of the dimension, which cancel each other out to a factor of "0".
Wouldn't a properly angled and mounted wing "generate downforce", but perhaps not enough to counteract the actual lift of the car? Is that what you mean by saying that downforce is not generated? Even so, if a wing serves only to cancel out a portion of the lift...is that not advantageous?
Joined: Jun 2008
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As for the hood vents, I think it for sure helps front down force in two ways. If you have an upward curve on the hood preceding the vent, that curved surface should generate down force; basic Newton's 3rd law of every action has an equal and opposite reaction. So the curved surface of the hood is pushing up on the air to forcing it to change direction upward, and the air is pushing down on the hood as the opposite reaction.
Actually the curved shape of the S2000's hood acts like the top surface of a wing--it accelerates airflow over it which creates a thin low pressure area over the hood. This low pressure generates lift. The red lines over the hood in the Ford Fusion graphic in the first post represent high speed airflow, high velocity = low pressure. This low pressure area is what pulls air out of the engine bay (or wheel wells if they are vented).
For examples, they all have varying levels of a upward curve/lip preceding the opening vent. I'll add that I think the primary purpose of the upward lip is to create an even greater low pressure zone directly behind the raised lip helping to extract more air out of the engine bay. But I think they generate a smidge of downforce purely due to fluid mechanics:
Joined: Jul 2005
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Dries (Graphtuner), I think we might be having a little bit of a language issue and I apologize because your English is much better than my French (or any other language). After carefully re-reading all your posts I think I understand what you're saying but I find it hard to believe the underside of most S2000 wings aren't generating some downforce--especially the outside sections of the wing.
But I see people here talking about the same thing, but explaning it differently
You are right that the outside sections of a wing are more likely to generate more downforce, just because of the more stable airflow they are moving in...
I love this thread, i wish i was a student again so i could dive into this matter again
Thread Starter
Former Moderator
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: West Virginia
Notice what I bolded in the quote
For examples, they all have varying levels of a upward curve/lip preceding the opening vent. I'll add that I think the primary purpose of the upward lip is to create an even greater low pressure zone directly behind the raised lip helping to extract more air out of the engine bay. But I think they generate a smidge of downforce purely due to fluid mechanics:
For examples, they all have varying levels of a upward curve/lip preceding the opening vent. I'll add that I think the primary purpose of the upward lip is to create an even greater low pressure zone directly behind the raised lip helping to extract more air out of the engine bay. But I think they generate a smidge of downforce purely due to fluid mechanics:
Yep, I misunderstood. I agree with you completely. I thought about trying to bend the leading edge of my hood vent up and the trailing edge down but I was afraid I'd end up chipping off the paint so I left it alone.
Joined: Jun 2009
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This is one of the most interesting threads on the forum in a long time. Great reading.
What do you guys think of the OEM Wing Spoiler of the S2k? Not many people have it. Any benefit. Any disadvantages? Should I ditch mine?
What do you guys think of the OEM Wing Spoiler of the S2k? Not many people have it. Any benefit. Any disadvantages? Should I ditch mine?