SPC Camber Joint vs J's Racing S1
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,634
Likes: 28
From: West Virginia
This is the ball joint separator I use:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...u=00996404000P
It's $20 and works very well with S2000 ball joints.
Using it to install the J's part:
Put some PB Blaster on the ball joint nut and ball joint
Remove cotter pin from ball joint
Loosen the ball joint nut to the point where it's flush with the top of the ball joint shaft
Put some grease on the ball joint tool that slides under the ball joint boot and grease the threads of the tool
Turn the bolt on the tool until the ball joint pops out
Remove two bolts on bottom of ball joint
Put J's ball joint in place and install the two bolts
Put the ball joint shaft into the knuckle and put the ball joint nut on
Torque the ball joint nut
Install a cotter pin
No need to remove a-arms or shock.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...u=00996404000P
It's $20 and works very well with S2000 ball joints.
Using it to install the J's part:
Put some PB Blaster on the ball joint nut and ball joint
Remove cotter pin from ball joint
Loosen the ball joint nut to the point where it's flush with the top of the ball joint shaft
Put some grease on the ball joint tool that slides under the ball joint boot and grease the threads of the tool
Turn the bolt on the tool until the ball joint pops out
Remove two bolts on bottom of ball joint
Put J's ball joint in place and install the two bolts
Put the ball joint shaft into the knuckle and put the ball joint nut on
Torque the ball joint nut
Install a cotter pin
No need to remove a-arms or shock.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,593
Likes: 0
Hey Guys,
Instead of going with uber expensive JDM bling J's, or the pain-in-the-arse-to-install SPC joints, there is a third option that is as good as the J's and almost as cheap as the SPC: Hard Race. Someone had mentioned it briefly earlier, but I can't believe no one went and tried to buy a set. I did some research on Hard Race, and they make a LOT of suspension stuff for other cars as well. The civic guys seem happy with their products for track work. So I bought a set, and they look EXACTLY like the J's racing L1 (NOT the S1, but the more expensive L1 WITH the roll center adjusting brackets). I haven't gotten an alignment with them yet, but just eyeballing it it looks like I got about 2 degrees more with it, so I should be at around 4 degrees of camber. I took some pics of the parts before I installed it, but need to host them somewhere. Here is the pic from hardrace:
I think I'd get in trouble with the mods (mods, is it ok if i post the shop and the price?) if I posted a website and a price, so let's just say that they are less than HALF the price of the J's L1 joints, and about the same price or slightly more than the SPCs. If you'd like more info, just PM me and I'll tell you how much and where it get it.
James
Instead of going with uber expensive JDM bling J's, or the pain-in-the-arse-to-install SPC joints, there is a third option that is as good as the J's and almost as cheap as the SPC: Hard Race. Someone had mentioned it briefly earlier, but I can't believe no one went and tried to buy a set. I did some research on Hard Race, and they make a LOT of suspension stuff for other cars as well. The civic guys seem happy with their products for track work. So I bought a set, and they look EXACTLY like the J's racing L1 (NOT the S1, but the more expensive L1 WITH the roll center adjusting brackets). I haven't gotten an alignment with them yet, but just eyeballing it it looks like I got about 2 degrees more with it, so I should be at around 4 degrees of camber. I took some pics of the parts before I installed it, but need to host them somewhere. Here is the pic from hardrace:
I think I'd get in trouble with the mods (mods, is it ok if i post the shop and the price?) if I posted a website and a price, so let's just say that they are less than HALF the price of the J's L1 joints, and about the same price or slightly more than the SPCs. If you'd like more info, just PM me and I'll tell you how much and where it get it.
James
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,961
Likes: 1
From: SF Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted by PilotSH' timestamp='1302650790' post='20459446
Hey Guys,
Instead of going with uber expensive JDM bling J's, or the pain-in-the-arse-to-install SPC joints, there is a third option that is as good as the J's and almost as cheap as the SPC: Hard Race. Someone had mentioned it briefly earlier, but I can't believe no one went and tried to buy a set. I did some research on Hard Race, and they make a LOT of suspension stuff for other cars as well. The civic guys seem happy with their products for track work. So I bought a set, and they look EXACTLY like the J's racing L1 (NOT the S1, but the more expensive L1 WITH the roll center adjusting brackets). I haven't gotten an alignment with them yet, but just eyeballing it it looks like I got about 2 degrees more with it, so I should be at around 4 degrees of camber. I took some pics of the parts before I installed it, but need to host them somewhere. Here is the pic from hardrace:
I think I'd get in trouble with the mods (mods, is it ok if i post the shop and the price?) if I posted a website and a price, so let's just say that they are less than HALF the price of the J's L1 joints, and about the same price or slightly more than the SPCs. If you'd like more info, just PM me and I'll tell you how much and where it get it.
James
Instead of going with uber expensive JDM bling J's, or the pain-in-the-arse-to-install SPC joints, there is a third option that is as good as the J's and almost as cheap as the SPC: Hard Race. Someone had mentioned it briefly earlier, but I can't believe no one went and tried to buy a set. I did some research on Hard Race, and they make a LOT of suspension stuff for other cars as well. The civic guys seem happy with their products for track work. So I bought a set, and they look EXACTLY like the J's racing L1 (NOT the S1, but the more expensive L1 WITH the roll center adjusting brackets). I haven't gotten an alignment with them yet, but just eyeballing it it looks like I got about 2 degrees more with it, so I should be at around 4 degrees of camber. I took some pics of the parts before I installed it, but need to host them somewhere. Here is the pic from hardrace:
I think I'd get in trouble with the mods (mods, is it ok if i post the shop and the price?) if I posted a website and a price, so let's just say that they are less than HALF the price of the J's L1 joints, and about the same price or slightly more than the SPCs. If you'd like more info, just PM me and I'll tell you how much and where it get it.
James
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,402
Likes: 2
From: CA
Originally Posted by dc_s2k' timestamp='1302791633' post='20466121
[quote name='PilotSH' timestamp='1302650790' post='20459446']
Hey Guys,
Instead of going with uber expensive JDM bling J's, or the pain-in-the-arse-to-install SPC joints, there is a third option that is as good as the J's and almost as cheap as the SPC: Hard Race. Someone had mentioned it briefly earlier, but I can't believe no one went and tried to buy a set. I did some research on Hard Race, and they make a LOT of suspension stuff for other cars as well. The civic guys seem happy with their products for track work. So I bought a set, and they look EXACTLY like the J's racing L1 (NOT the S1, but the more expensive L1 WITH the roll center adjusting brackets). I haven't gotten an alignment with them yet, but just eyeballing it it looks like I got about 2 degrees more with it, so I should be at around 4 degrees of camber. I took some pics of the parts before I installed it, but need to host them somewhere. Here is the pic from hardrace:
I think I'd get in trouble with the mods (mods, is it ok if i post the shop and the price?) if I posted a website and a price, so let's just say that they are less than HALF the price of the J's L1 joints, and about the same price or slightly more than the SPCs. If you'd like more info, just PM me and I'll tell you how much and where it get it.
James
Hey Guys,
Instead of going with uber expensive JDM bling J's, or the pain-in-the-arse-to-install SPC joints, there is a third option that is as good as the J's and almost as cheap as the SPC: Hard Race. Someone had mentioned it briefly earlier, but I can't believe no one went and tried to buy a set. I did some research on Hard Race, and they make a LOT of suspension stuff for other cars as well. The civic guys seem happy with their products for track work. So I bought a set, and they look EXACTLY like the J's racing L1 (NOT the S1, but the more expensive L1 WITH the roll center adjusting brackets). I haven't gotten an alignment with them yet, but just eyeballing it it looks like I got about 2 degrees more with it, so I should be at around 4 degrees of camber. I took some pics of the parts before I installed it, but need to host them somewhere. Here is the pic from hardrace:
I think I'd get in trouble with the mods (mods, is it ok if i post the shop and the price?) if I posted a website and a price, so let's just say that they are less than HALF the price of the J's L1 joints, and about the same price or slightly more than the SPCs. If you'd like more info, just PM me and I'll tell you how much and where it get it.
James
[/quote]
i was talking to some people who have very good track times with the s2000. they ran with and without front / rear roll center adjusters (the plate for the front, the joint for the rear). and they found that the front "helped with turn in" (in their words) and have since kept it on their track car (an ap2). and they found that the rear joint caused oversteer problems, and have since removed it.
it's my hypothesis that since they are running a pretty aggresively setup car, some additional roll in the rear helps their car with oversteer, like lessening the roll bar. (or of course i could be completely wrong.)
anyway, as for if you "need" the roll center adjusters, well, you do not really "need" more camber either. it's more about finding the opimal tuning parameters for your car. but it appears you will have to test by trial and error.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,593
Likes: 0
So, which hardrace part adds camber? Is it the one with the ball joint or the one with the spacers and the ball joint? The reason i ask is I found this kit on ebay, #6622 that does not come with the spacers. The other kit #6621, that does have the spacers/plates does not seem to be for sale on ebay right now.
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,881
Likes: 6
From: Near Philadelphia
So, which hardrace part adds camber? Is it the one with the ball joint or the one with the spacers and the ball joint? The reason i ask is I found this kit on ebay, #6622 that does not come with the spacers. The other kit #6621, that does have the spacers/plates does not seem to be for sale on ebay right now.
Edit: Actually I think I'm wrong. It could be that the ball joint just extends it, whereas the plate makes it offset. The J's joint it's what I said above, which is the other way around (I have the J's joint). I checked the hard race website and they also call it a roll center adjuster with optional offset camber plate, so I'm guessing the seller is right that you need the plate to make more camber, and the ball joint just changes roll center. Anyone actually have these and see if they're offset without the plate?
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,593
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by dc_s2k' timestamp='1302872079' post='20469702
So, which hardrace part adds camber? Is it the one with the ball joint or the one with the spacers and the ball joint? The reason i ask is I found this kit on ebay, #6622 that does not come with the spacers. The other kit #6621, that does have the spacers/plates does not seem to be for sale on ebay right now.
Edit: Actually I think I'm wrong. It could be that the ball joint just extends it, whereas the plate makes it offset. The J's joint it's what I said above, which is the other way around (I have the J's joint). I checked the hard race website and they also call it a roll center adjuster with optional offset camber plate, so I'm guessing the seller is right that you need the plate to make more camber, and the ball joint just changes roll center. Anyone actually have these and see if they're offset without the plate?
The description for the Js kit makes me think the plate deals with roll center and the ball joint address camber.
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,881
Likes: 6
From: Near Philadelphia
Originally Posted by IntegraR0064' timestamp='1302875422' post='20469867
[quote name='dc_s2k' timestamp='1302872079' post='20469702']
So, which hardrace part adds camber? Is it the one with the ball joint or the one with the spacers and the ball joint? The reason i ask is I found this kit on ebay, #6622 that does not come with the spacers. The other kit #6621, that does have the spacers/plates does not seem to be for sale on ebay right now.
So, which hardrace part adds camber? Is it the one with the ball joint or the one with the spacers and the ball joint? The reason i ask is I found this kit on ebay, #6622 that does not come with the spacers. The other kit #6621, that does have the spacers/plates does not seem to be for sale on ebay right now.
Edit: Actually I think I'm wrong. It could be that the ball joint just extends it, whereas the plate makes it offset. The J's joint it's what I said above, which is the other way around (I have the J's joint). I checked the hard race website and they also call it a roll center adjuster with optional offset camber plate, so I'm guessing the seller is right that you need the plate to make more camber, and the ball joint just changes roll center. Anyone actually have these and see if they're offset without the plate?
The description for the Js kit makes me think the plate deals with roll center and the ball joint address camber.
[/quote]
Sorry if I wasn't clear pre and post edit. I have the J's kit, and I am 100% sure that in the J's the ball joint changes camber and the plates are for adjusting roll center. I was originally assuming hardrace was a copy of the J's, so that's why I replied the way I did. However, after saying that I looked at the hardrace website to make sure and they say that it's the other way around for their kit, which would technically be possible, plus the plate looks different, so that's why I edited saying I wasn't actually sure. You'll definitely have to contact them or hear from someone who got one to know for sure. My guess is you need the plate to adjust camber.
Calling's probably not gonna work out for you so well - the +886 in front of their number means it's in Taiwan.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,961
Likes: 1
From: SF Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted by IntegraR0064' timestamp='1302875422' post='20469867
[quote name='dc_s2k' timestamp='1302872079' post='20469702']
So, which hardrace part adds camber? Is it the one with the ball joint or the one with the spacers and the ball joint? The reason i ask is I found this kit on ebay, #6622 that does not come with the spacers. The other kit #6621, that does have the spacers/plates does not seem to be for sale on ebay right now.
So, which hardrace part adds camber? Is it the one with the ball joint or the one with the spacers and the ball joint? The reason i ask is I found this kit on ebay, #6622 that does not come with the spacers. The other kit #6621, that does have the spacers/plates does not seem to be for sale on ebay right now.
Edit: Actually I think I'm wrong. It could be that the ball joint just extends it, whereas the plate makes it offset. The J's joint it's what I said above, which is the other way around (I have the J's joint). I checked the hard race website and they also call it a roll center adjuster with optional offset camber plate, so I'm guessing the seller is right that you need the plate to make more camber, and the ball joint just changes roll center. Anyone actually have these and see if they're offset without the plate?
The description for the Js kit makes me think the plate deals with roll center and the ball joint address camber.
[/quote]
Yeah, that's correct.