oinojo

No it is not legal. It is legal to ADD a wideband sensor for an A/F gauge or controller. The Stock wideband needs to stay and operate normally.

blade954

So Looking forward to this. Your help has been invaluable. Thank you so much. And well done on getting such nice gains on the AP1. I wish I had a dyno close by to see where i'm standing.

Do you by any chance have a before and after afr graph or maybe an ign timings graph?

Looking at the huge gains you have at even the lower revs, I'm so curious as to what did you do with the ign timing there. It seems to me that the ap1 ecu is so sensitive for knock at these revs 2000-3000 that it I have to pull some timing to avoid having the knock retard carrying at the higher revs and messing my adjustments....

Also are your GEMU timing logs correct? I seems to get some offset from what I believe to be the actual values, or record through the OBD,that increases (the offset) as the rev rise.

Did you find that you had to adjust your correction points (scale) very tight around your new vtec switch revs( 3500) and the 6000rpm point so as to smoothen the fuel and the ignition timing at these 2 points?

Karcepts

(continued from post #626)

After finally getting a chance to play with and tune an AP1, I can also confirm that all jumper settings and wiring with the MAP tap and TPS intercept that have worked on the AP2v1's will also work flawlessly on the AP1. I don't know why the Greddy wiring called for TPS tap for MY00-03 and TPS intercept on MY04-05; but I would ALWAYS wire the TPS intercept and would request that of Boomslang for any S2K E-manage Ultimate harness, as you can take advantage of forcing the car into open loop for part throttle tuning if you desire. If you don't have a load holding capable dyno to obtain part throttle gains by forcing open loop early, you can still retain the factory closed/open loop transition by simply matching the throttle input and output voltage values on the Analog Output Setting Map.

Attached is a speed density (MAP sensor driven) base map for an AP1 with a rev limit set to 9050 rpm where the close/open transition point is roughly 25%TPS. This file is ready to start tuning and making power with consistent operation and will be code free, assuming the following:
1. Chassis = 2000-2003 Honda S2000
2. Use of Greddy E-Manage Ultimate using software Version 2.23 and jumper settings specified
3. Use of Boomslang harness purchased with Knock Sensor & Intake Air Temp option + modified to MAP “tap”
4. Must also have the additional harness modification to a TPS "intercept" (shown at the bottom of this post)
5. Lastly, the "making power" part of my statement can only happen at part throttle with the use of a load holding dyno and using the live tuning capability of the EMU to determine optimum fuel and ignition adjustments for all load vs. rpm points

If you compare the Analog Output Setting Map in this file with the AP2v1 speed density base map file, you will observe the 3.40's have now become 3.90's. This is because the AP1 ECU does not command open loop until it sees a TPS setting of approximately 85% throttle. 3.84 volts was the actual observed transition point; but as I had done previously, I rounded up a little just to guarantee forced open loop conditions would occur for most. I would always double check this value with a scan tool on any car before tuning. Besides the higher TPS open loop transition point on the AP1, there were no other differences in GEMU setup, wiring, and tuning compared to the AP2v1.

Hope this info has been helpful,
-Brian

s2000ellier

Thank you Brian! I love the S2000 STR community for its openness. All you guys rock!

Karcepts

I'd have to pull the graphs off the dyno data, which I don't have access to right now, but the AFR after was flat and targeted a little on the leaner side (13.5ish) only because it was December and cool and low humidity, so the car is only going to richen up come spring/summer. Normally I shoot for ~13.2. I do not have any ignition timing graphs.

I'm sorry, but that's one thing I cannot share right now, unless you want to fly to MD to schedule a tuning appointment...

Honestly, I've never paid much attention to differences between the OBD scanner and what GEMU says. I believe both can be prone to some error, but in the end, the ignition adjustment made are solely based off dyno data. I think in your case, you will be able to answer a lot of your questions by finding a dyno to tune on, otherwise, you are blind with your adjustments right now...

I did not need to do so as it was not too difficult to get smooth; however, for sure I could see that helping a little. The only issue is our high reving Honda's use up a good amount of the 16 available rpm inputs, so you just need to make sure it won't compromise an rpm zone elsewhere.

blade954

What he said. Thank you Brian.

Its been in my intentions to visit the states, either this or next spring. If I fly to new york as planned, I do not suppose that a trip down to meryland would be too far away. Only thing is that I can not see bringing my S all the way there... Thanks for the offer anyway.

Not sure if it has been mentioned before, but would Brian be interested to offer an etune, with unlocked maps so as I can fine tune (or fine destroy) myself??

and one more time.
Thank you Brian.

blade954

Brian, thanks for the map and everything as per my previous comment.

Only thing I would like to add to your post is that the aux output map needs to be used for activating vtec, else the attached map will run the car without vtec.

Until now I have been using 3.60 to force it into open loop and it had worked consistently, but after reading your post I will change it to 3.90 just to be certain.

oh and thanks for rubbing it in about needing a load holding dyno to make power....

Karcepts

Not true. Of course, the Auxiliary Output Setting Map will need to be activated in order to modify the VTEC trigger points at whatever load and rpm points you determine as optimal through the tuning process. However, I purposely kept disabled on these base maps to actually retain the factory VTEC settings. VTEC will activate at the factory set points with the provided base maps and wiring. Maybe your different VTEC wiring method prevents this.

Hmm, I'm curious, can you test for me with your OBD scanner to determine the specific closed/open voltage transition point on your car? You don't actually have to hit 85% tps to determine this. What you can do is just have the car idling... this is around .25 TPS voltage.. So on the Analog Output Setting Map, change the first 2 Output voltage cell values from 0.20 and 0.30 to both say: 3.80. Watch your scanner as you do this live. If still closed loop, try 3.82v, then 3.84v, etc. This will tell you the exact voltage transition point. I'm curious to see if similar, or if the cars may vary a lot. Either way, this is my step #1 to perform on any car before starting to tune. Get the dang thing in open loop to actually set AFR targets where you desire (if you care about part throttle)..

Anytime!

blade954

I just did the idle test to force it into openloop and my results are, 3.80 was always getting it into open loop. On my obd scanner that was 76% throttle. Strangely anything below 3.8 was not giving open loop at idle. I'm quite certain that in the past I was seeing open loop, while driving at 3-5k rpm, with the 3.6 value...

here is my current analog out for the throttle:


The 0.10 setting at the idle point has helped with my idle and a smoother on-off throttle transition as I was getting some intermittent idle fluctuations. My tps at idle reads 0.26.

You are probably correct about the aux output map. I'm getting used to apologizing by now.

I noticed that on your base map for extending the rev limiter you are starting with a 88% value at 8800rpm. In my case 81% was more appropriate and 85% at 9050rpm. Thats quite a gap. What where your afrs at this rev range? I'm at sea level so I don't expect someone to need more fuel.

My car is a german import, year 2004, ap2(facelift), with the 2000cc engine. So something like a ap1.5 in your case. Not sure if honda changed something in the ecu of the european ap2 cars in 2004 compared to the older cars(pre2003). I vaguely remember reading that the 2004 was not as rich up top as the previous years but I can not be sure that it was referring to the european ap1.5 cars or the us ap2 cars.

In some other threads I've read about people upgrading to larger injectors (640-650cc) for a NA setup(mostly ap2 cars), with good results, and I was wondering if there is any benefit in doing so, since our injectors are not maxed out yet.... Maybe having the fuel coming faster or with a different spray pattern helps but I wouldn't know for sure.

Karcepts

Great, thanks for testing! 3.80 to 3.84 is pretty close to me. With your AP1.5 or whatever we want to call it, I would think the ECU's are probably similar if not the same.. you still have the F20 motor; but yeah, maybe there could be some slight differences. Either way, it looks like the starting points for GEMU tuning is unchanged. With the car strapped down on the dyno and me able to focus directly on the OBD scanner and GEMU screen, I did not find any load/rpm condition that triggered open loop any earlier. I found it was solely controlled by the TPS position (same position as idle test). You mention you observe 76% throttle on your scanner at 3.80v. I was going by the GEMU conversions in my throttle position references. There's definitely some offset there. 3.84 shows ~85%, 3.80 shows ~84%. Good enough for me... Thanks again for the verification!

In regard to the base map rev limit settings; yes, I know, the duty cycles there are intentionally high. It's a base map. For safety, I added some extra fudge in here (if people wanted to take it and bounce off their limiters as a test without worry). You have to of course find the settings that work for your vehicle/conditions. I will say that for us in STR trim, we can sometimes ride the rev limiter a lot, so I am still extra conservative in this area and I will target low 12's. Your numbers correspond similarly with my observations, so I believe they are close.