want better turn in
10-30-2011, 12:53 PM
#21
Registered User
Thread Starter
thank you all for your input so far.
so let me summarise and see that i got it correctly.
1. front toe - should be set to 0
2. what about front camber? 2 1/4 enough? (rear is 2)
3. front dampers setting change? stiffer or softer?
4. rear toe in reduced to 1-2 mm total
5. softer front springs
tyres ....... are tyres. will put something else after they're done. anyway i put high pressure and i hope it helps.
caster... i hate heavy steering so dial caster a bit down...
so let me summarise and see that i got it correctly.
1. front toe - should be set to 0
2. what about front camber? 2 1/4 enough? (rear is 2)
3. front dampers setting change? stiffer or softer?
4. rear toe in reduced to 1-2 mm total
5. softer front springs
tyres ....... are tyres. will put something else after they're done. anyway i put high pressure and i hope it helps.
caster... i hate heavy steering so dial caster a bit down...
10-30-2011, 01:12 PM
#22
Former Moderator
You left off softening your front shock settings (free and easy) and better tires. If you do go for new tires consider new non-staggered wheels--really helps the front end push.
10-30-2011, 01:31 PM
#23
Again with the S2000s electric power steering you can run more caster (i.e. 7+) be faster and not have heavy steering.
From Grassroots Motorsports magazine Pointed the Right Way, by John Hagerman:
The tilted steering axis has another important effect on suspension geometry. Since the wheel rotates about a tilted axis, the wheel gains camber as it is turned. This effect is best visualized by imagining the unrealistically extreme case where the steering axis would be horizontal-as the steering wheel is turned, the road wheel would simply change camber rather than direction. This effect causes the outside wheel in a turn to gain negative camber, while the inside wheel gains positive camber.
Increasing camber, angles one wheel the wrong way in a turn, increasing caster, angles both wheels the correct way.
From Grassroots Motorsports magazine Pointed the Right Way, by John Hagerman:
The tilted steering axis has another important effect on suspension geometry. Since the wheel rotates about a tilted axis, the wheel gains camber as it is turned. This effect is best visualized by imagining the unrealistically extreme case where the steering axis would be horizontal-as the steering wheel is turned, the road wheel would simply change camber rather than direction. This effect causes the outside wheel in a turn to gain negative camber, while the inside wheel gains positive camber.
Increasing camber, angles one wheel the wrong way in a turn, increasing caster, angles both wheels the correct way.
10-30-2011, 01:52 PM
#24
Originally Posted by ZDan' timestamp='1319986878' post='21113666
You have 5mm total rear toe? That's a lot
Knock it down to 1-2mm total. That should provide a noticeable improvement in turn-in.
In my experience, too much rear toe sucks, for everything.
Knock it down to 1-2mm total. That should provide a noticeable improvement in turn-in.
In my experience, too much rear toe sucks, for everything.
my calculation was that 5 mm is ~0.25 degr.
so how much is it?
tire diameter ~25"
Total toe angle = sin-1(.197"/25") = 0.45 degrees.
I generally recommend 0.2 - 0.3 degrees to the masses. To a track hound specifically looking for improved turn-in, 0.1 - 0.2 degrees is a more appropriate range. 1mm = .09deg, 2mm = .18deg.
Try it, you'll like it
10-30-2011, 02:12 PM
#25
From Grassroots Motorsports magazine Pointed the Right Way, by John Hagerman:
The tilted steering axis has another important effect on suspension geometry. Since the wheel rotates about a tilted axis, the wheel gains camber as it is turned. This effect is best visualized by imagining the unrealistically extreme case where the steering axis would be horizontal-as the steering wheel is turned, the road wheel would simply change camber rather than direction. This effect causes the outside wheel in a turn to gain negative camber, while the inside wheel gains positive camber.
Increasing camber, angles one wheel the wrong way in a turn, increasing caster, angles both wheels the correct way.
The tilted steering axis has another important effect on suspension geometry. Since the wheel rotates about a tilted axis, the wheel gains camber as it is turned. This effect is best visualized by imagining the unrealistically extreme case where the steering axis would be horizontal-as the steering wheel is turned, the road wheel would simply change camber rather than direction. This effect causes the outside wheel in a turn to gain negative camber, while the inside wheel gains positive camber.
Increasing camber, angles one wheel the wrong way in a turn, increasing caster, angles both wheels the correct way.
But 7deg seems excessive to me. Personally I've always preferred much smaller caster numbers, I think that more/more/more caster might be overrated for road course work. For autoX there may be big benefits, including weight-jacking effects. 2 cents...
10-30-2011, 05:09 PM
#27
You still need to answer if its a grip issue (having understeer) or a feel issue (sluggish response)... you treat these conditions in very different manors... Also from what I have heard, R1R's like VERY low tire pressure, so if its a grip issue, less pressure will likely help.
10-30-2011, 05:54 PM
#28
Former Moderator
You still need to answer if its a grip issue (having understeer) or a feel issue (sluggish response)... you treat these conditions in very different manors... Also from what I have heard, R1R's like VERY low tire pressure, so if its a grip issue, less pressure will likely help.
10-30-2011, 06:01 PM
#29
Originally Posted by Croc' timestamp='1319917477' post='21112508
i'm after immidiate turn in.
currently handling is quite neutral but turn in is not fast as i would like it to be.
anything i can do with allingment to improve it?
currently handling is quite neutral but turn in is not fast as i would like it to be.
anything i can do with allingment to improve it?
You still need to answer if its a grip issue (having understeer) or a feel issue (sluggish response)... you treat these conditions in very different manors... Also from what I have heard, R1R's like VERY low tire pressure, so if its a grip issue, less pressure will likely help.
10-30-2011, 06:07 PM
#30
Former Moderator
