want better turn in
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Yep... and Iv'e got no issue admitting it when I'm wrong (in in this case illiterate)
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From: Israel
Originally Posted by Croc' timestamp='1319917477' post='21112508
i'm after immidiate turn in.
currently handling is quite neutral but turn in is not fast as i would like it to be.
anything i can do with allingment to improve it?
currently handling is quite neutral but turn in is not fast as i would like it to be.
anything i can do with allingment to improve it?
You still need to answer if its a grip issue (having understeer) or a feel issue (sluggish response)... you treat these conditions in very different manors... Also from what I have heard, R1R's like VERY low tire pressure, so if its a grip issue, less pressure will likely help.
it's not bad now - but i want it even better.
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From: Israel
i csn set front sway for stiffer.
but untill now i've heard "go softer at front".
pls enlight me
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From: Israel
actually now with 5.5 caster and front toe out the stering feels somewhat weird - i guess i would bump cater up to 6.
or maybe i do it after i try front toe 0 and see how steering feels....
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From: Israel
OK - i think i got what you're all saying - as long as there is no grip loss shocks/springs can be stiffened to improve turn in.
for me it's easy to pur sway bar on stiffer setting.
i hope it won't make ride too bumpy....
zero toe at front and reduce toe at rear is also will be done.
what about front camber?
do i need to increase current 2 1/4?
for me it's easy to pur sway bar on stiffer setting.
i hope it won't make ride too bumpy....
zero toe at front and reduce toe at rear is also will be done.
what about front camber?
do i need to increase current 2 1/4?
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From: West Virginia
The reason some of us are saying "go softer in the front" is with your narrow, less than optimal tires combined with your suspension the slow turn in may be caused by under steer--skidding the front tires. Your front shock settings seem pretty firm, probably too firm.
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Originally Posted by TTMartin' timestamp='1320010261' post='21114232
[quote name='Croc' timestamp='1320007994' post='21114142']
. . . caster... i hate heavy steering so dial caster a bit down . . .
. . . caster... i hate heavy steering so dial caster a bit down . . .
From Grassroots Motorsports magazine Pointed the Right Way, by John Hagerman:
The tilted steering axis has another important effect on suspension geometry. Since the wheel rotates about a tilted axis, the wheel gains camber as it is turned. This effect is best visualized by imagining the unrealistically extreme case where the steering axis would be horizontal-as the steering wheel is turned, the road wheel would simply change camber rather than direction. This effect causes the outside wheel in a turn to gain negative camber, while the inside wheel gains positive camber.
Increasing camber, angles one wheel the wrong way in a turn, increasing caster, angles both wheels the correct way.
The tilted steering axis has another important effect on suspension geometry. Since the wheel rotates about a tilted axis, the wheel gains camber as it is turned. This effect is best visualized by imagining the unrealistically extreme case where the steering axis would be horizontal-as the steering wheel is turned, the road wheel would simply change camber rather than direction. This effect causes the outside wheel in a turn to gain negative camber, while the inside wheel gains positive camber.
Increasing camber, angles one wheel the wrong way in a turn, increasing caster, angles both wheels the correct way.
But 7deg seems excessive to me. Personally I've always preferred much smaller caster numbers, I think that more/more/more caster might be overrated for road course work. For autoX there may be big benefits, including weight-jacking effects. 2 cents...
[/quote]
Everything you quoted and said seems to support increasing caster. Why, at the end of your post, do you say you prefer less caster?
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From: Israel
i can't change tyres due to local regulations
my current shock settings are 13 (16 is the softwest 1 is the firmest).
this is set not because to dial in handling but to find a sweetspot netween harsh bumpy ride and too soft wobling ride.
so it's like 2 contradictroy things - for slow turn in we need sofrt front end, for fast turn in we need stiff front end?
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Regarding turn in:
stiffer in front = more responsive and immediate turn in, going stiffer works until you reach a point where you have reduced the front grip to the point of understeer
Softer in front = more front grip at the sacrifice of immediate turn in and quick response.
These cars really don't need any toe out up front, id start by stiffening your front shocks and setting front toe to 0. I would follow that up with different tires when the R1R's wear out. Hankook RS3's are better suited to your climate than anything else in the street tire category and will give better turn in (they also like higher tire pressures which will help as well), Dunlop Star Specs will have even better turn in but not as much ultimate grip in the high heat climate you live in. Either would be good choices (both also last MUCH MUCH longer than R1R's especially when you factor in that R1R's are heat-cycled out long before they wear out.)
stiffer in front = more responsive and immediate turn in, going stiffer works until you reach a point where you have reduced the front grip to the point of understeer
Softer in front = more front grip at the sacrifice of immediate turn in and quick response.
These cars really don't need any toe out up front, id start by stiffening your front shocks and setting front toe to 0. I would follow that up with different tires when the R1R's wear out. Hankook RS3's are better suited to your climate than anything else in the street tire category and will give better turn in (they also like higher tire pressures which will help as well), Dunlop Star Specs will have even better turn in but not as much ultimate grip in the high heat climate you live in. Either would be good choices (both also last MUCH MUCH longer than R1R's especially when you factor in that R1R's are heat-cycled out long before they wear out.)