What is a better value than S2000 for dd/hpde
04-06-2018, 11:53 AM
#21
Top tip: The 996 turbo while probably expensive to fix did not suffer from IMS issues like it's NA brethren, but still suffered from the fear inspired by the IMS issues of the 996 generation that leads to huge depreciation, so you can pick one up at a bargain.
I think the best bang for the buck running out there for a DD/HDPE is the C7 with Z51 package, that package makes it track ready and the C7's have depreciated like crazy so far, you can get them for under $40K in some areas of the country!
I think the best bang for the buck running out there for a DD/HDPE is the C7 with Z51 package, that package makes it track ready and the C7's have depreciated like crazy so far, you can get them for under $40K in some areas of the country!
04-06-2018, 11:53 AM
#22
I agree on this. Sure you can swap a motor in and make a lot of power (you can make a lot of power in an S2k as well .. so the comparison of a motor swapped civic to a stock S2k is not a good one) but you still drive home in a FWD civic :P I would much rather be driving my S2k around on stock power, which is way more fun to me than beating on a FWD car. Just me, but that is my feel on it. On the double duty side of it, yes, a newer model civic (the older "good" si models in any sort of competitive prep are like torture on city streets) is going to be better at getting groceries ... because it is a grocery getter. So it depends on what you really want I guess, but I would never pick a FWD over my S2k for my toy car.
04-06-2018, 11:57 AM
#23
[QUOTE=miamirice;24443020]
nothing wrong with my s2000. I kept a lightly modded low miles 2004. I sold my caged H1 s2000. My 229 whp/2200 lbs civic on a mediocre day is faster than either of the 200 WHPish/2700 lbs s2000’s on a good day. I sold the caged car to race spec miata where there is actually a field of cars (HC is dead in FL). The SM is the slowest car I own but the fun factor is amazing.
The OP asked about daily driven/occasional track. A civic hatch is incredible practice in daily life. Kmotors are abundant and easy to drop into a civic. They are also super lively and flexible. My concern with any S2000 picked up now is either it’s expensive or it’s likely to need a motor soon. S2000 motors on eBay are a crap shoot (ask me how I know). Putting a motor in the s2000 is like 2 days at the D.M.V.
I hear you on wrong wheel drive but there is a fun factor to lifting at 7000-9000 rpm and then catching the rear before it’s infront of you.
I instructed for corvette driving experience in C5’s and they are bruits. The only reason I don’t suggest c5 is consumables. They are bullet proof and fun.
Everybody is going to have different ideas on checking the boxes that are important to them. I think the e36 is a wonderfully docile yet capable car with a real trunk and real back seat.
For snybody thinking FRS/BRZ....get into the car with a helmet and be sure you fit. Don’t underestimate the fun factor of a Miata. I am now racing a 94 SM and it’s the slowest car I own but the smile factor is huge, especially in a pack with mirrors touching.
I will never sell my s2000.
Miatas are incredibly fun, even on stock power. I dont like the looks, dont want to own one .. but cant make myself hate them after having driving a few on an autox course! Hairdresser cars or not .. they are incredibly fun and capable, and easier to drive at the limit than a lot of comparable cars.
On the civic, at 2200 lbs I am guessing you own an older Si? Maybe a weekend track duty one is good for dd use, but one set up for street touring class in autocross (at least a competitive setup) is darned near a trailor car. Sitting on stiff springs, they are brutal on the street and I would never consider driving it anywhere but to events and back. I have driven a few that friends autox and my S in STR prep is way more comfortable on road ... and that doesnt say much for the civic :P But yes, for hpde/dd you could probably make a good setup that worked for both.
nothing wrong with my s2000. I kept a lightly modded low miles 2004. I sold my caged H1 s2000. My 229 whp/2200 lbs civic on a mediocre day is faster than either of the 200 WHPish/2700 lbs s2000’s on a good day. I sold the caged car to race spec miata where there is actually a field of cars (HC is dead in FL). The SM is the slowest car I own but the fun factor is amazing.
The OP asked about daily driven/occasional track. A civic hatch is incredible practice in daily life. Kmotors are abundant and easy to drop into a civic. They are also super lively and flexible. My concern with any S2000 picked up now is either it’s expensive or it’s likely to need a motor soon. S2000 motors on eBay are a crap shoot (ask me how I know). Putting a motor in the s2000 is like 2 days at the D.M.V.
I hear you on wrong wheel drive but there is a fun factor to lifting at 7000-9000 rpm and then catching the rear before it’s infront of you.
I instructed for corvette driving experience in C5’s and they are bruits. The only reason I don’t suggest c5 is consumables. They are bullet proof and fun.
Everybody is going to have different ideas on checking the boxes that are important to them. I think the e36 is a wonderfully docile yet capable car with a real trunk and real back seat.
For snybody thinking FRS/BRZ....get into the car with a helmet and be sure you fit. Don’t underestimate the fun factor of a Miata. I am now racing a 94 SM and it’s the slowest car I own but the smile factor is huge, especially in a pack with mirrors touching.
I will never sell my s2000.
On the civic, at 2200 lbs I am guessing you own an older Si? Maybe a weekend track duty one is good for dd use, but one set up for street touring class in autocross (at least a competitive setup) is darned near a trailor car. Sitting on stiff springs, they are brutal on the street and I would never consider driving it anywhere but to events and back. I have driven a few that friends autox and my S in STR prep is way more comfortable on road ... and that doesnt say much for the civic :P But yes, for hpde/dd you could probably make a good setup that worked for both.
04-06-2018, 12:05 PM
#24
[left][QUOTE=engifineer;24443026]
Miatas are incredibly fun, even on stock power. I dont like the looks, dont want to own one .. but cant make myself hate them after having driving a few on an autox course! Hairdresser cars or not .. they are incredibly fun and capable, and easier to drive at the limit than a lot of comparable cars.
On the civic, at 2200 lbs I am guessing you own an older Si? Maybe a weekend track duty one is good for dd use, but one set up for street touring class in autocross (at least a competitive setup) is darned near a trailor car. Sitting on stiff springs, they are brutal on the street and I would never consider driving it anywhere but to events and back. I have driven a few that friends autox and my S in STR prep is way more comfortable on road ... and that doesnt say much for the civic :P But yes, for hpde/dd you could probably make a good setup that worked for both.
Miatas are incredibly fun, even on stock power. I dont like the looks, dont want to own one .. but cant make myself hate them after having driving a few on an autox course! Hairdresser cars or not .. they are incredibly fun and capable, and easier to drive at the limit than a lot of comparable cars.
On the civic, at 2200 lbs I am guessing you own an older Si? Maybe a weekend track duty one is good for dd use, but one set up for street touring class in autocross (at least a competitive setup) is darned near a trailor car. Sitting on stiff springs, they are brutal on the street and I would never consider driving it anywhere but to events and back. I have driven a few that friends autox and my S in STR prep is way more comfortable on road ... and that doesnt say much for the civic :P But yes, for hpde/dd you could probably make a good setup that worked for both.
04-06-2018, 01:08 PM
#25
As a track day car or double duty? The S2000 on the street is one of the purest sports cars available. It also has a-arm suspensions front and rear, good weight distribution, relatively light weight compared to most other street cars, and a rwd design, increasingly rare. As a Honda it is relatively inexpensive.
As a track day car, a Mustang (and this would be nearly every Mustang in the last 30 years) has lots of potential. It has a roof. It is roomier than an S2000 (the easier to get a rollbar/cage, seat, harnesses, etc. to fit). Lots of parts available with reasonably good handling. Engines that produce good power for road circuits without overstressing. Some very high downforce pieces are available.
If you are going to trailer the car, a Spec Racer Ford, version 2, is in the teens. I recently saw one listed for $22k with a 22ft enclosed aluminum trailer. It is light enough (1500# without driver), especially with an open trailer, to be towed with a small SUV and even some family sedans. https://www.facebook.com/groups/3182...3194414376623/
Some older and middle-age sports racers (SCCA P1/P2) and formula cars fall in the $25k and under range. I don't think most HPDE events allow formula cars, but won't a sport racer be ok. Some will have paddle shifters, most are Hayabusa-powered. This one is $30k: Stohr SportsRacer for sale
The Corvette is the same or worse packaging problem as the S2k for rollbar/cage.
As a track day car, a Mustang (and this would be nearly every Mustang in the last 30 years) has lots of potential. It has a roof. It is roomier than an S2000 (the easier to get a rollbar/cage, seat, harnesses, etc. to fit). Lots of parts available with reasonably good handling. Engines that produce good power for road circuits without overstressing. Some very high downforce pieces are available.
If you are going to trailer the car, a Spec Racer Ford, version 2, is in the teens. I recently saw one listed for $22k with a 22ft enclosed aluminum trailer. It is light enough (1500# without driver), especially with an open trailer, to be towed with a small SUV and even some family sedans. https://www.facebook.com/groups/3182...3194414376623/
Some older and middle-age sports racers (SCCA P1/P2) and formula cars fall in the $25k and under range. I don't think most HPDE events allow formula cars, but won't a sport racer be ok. Some will have paddle shifters, most are Hayabusa-powered. This one is $30k: Stohr SportsRacer for sale
The Corvette is the same or worse packaging problem as the S2k for rollbar/cage.
04-06-2018, 02:03 PM
#26
I have several track friends with modified Miatas. From what I can see, an NB Miata with turbo and suspension and brake upgrades will cost less than an S2000 with similar lap times. Just about all the upgrades for early Miatas cost less than similar ones for the S2000. And you can pick up a nice NB for significantly less than $10k. That said, I still prefer the S2000 because of the overall experience. Just pointing out that the cost to make an S2000 go faster is more than for an early Miata.
04-06-2018, 02:37 PM
#27
The E46 is a pretty great car, and dirt cheap. Problem is the diff, which requires either an M3 rear subframe swap to bolt in a most-likely worn out OEM M3 diff or shelling about about $2.5k for a Kaaz/OSG/etc to put in the stock subframe.
I have several track friends with modified Miatas. From what I can see, an NB Miata with turbo and suspension and brake upgrades will cost less than an S2000 with similar lap times. Just about all the upgrades for early Miatas cost less than similar ones for the S2000. And you can pick up a nice NB for significantly less than $10k. That said, I still prefer the S2000 because of the overall experience. Just pointing out that the cost to make an S2000 go faster is more than for an early Miata.
04-06-2018, 02:41 PM
#28
I have several track friends with modified Miatas. From what I can see, an NB Miata with turbo and suspension and brake upgrades will cost less than an S2000 with similar lap times. Just about all the upgrades for early Miatas cost less than similar ones for the S2000. And you can pick up a nice NB for significantly less than $10k. That said, I still prefer the S2000 because of the overall experience. Just pointing out that the cost to make an S2000 go faster is more than for an early Miata.
FWIW my vote goes to two cars:
NC miata with 2.5 swap. This car is FAST and reliable and motors are cheap. Ive come up against a few of these and they are phenominal base cars for TT or W2W. Car fits nicely into ST4/TT4 with NASA and can be nationally competitive.
C5 base corvette. With SpecVette brewing out here, this is a no-brainer. 25K gets you a W2W car in a spec class. If SpecVette wasnt on the table i would vote C5 Z06.
All 3 will turn shockingly similar laptimes for dollars invested. I would argue the S2000 will give you more hours out of the rotating assy than the other two, but the other two are more sustainable from a spares perspective.
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sweetdill (04-09-2018)
04-06-2018, 05:50 PM
#29
Registered User
Thread Starter
It's nice to see the s2000 board say a miata is fast car. I have owned 2 rx2, 1 rx3 & fd3s. I like my mazdas. I was going to go with a miata. I was thinking about the factory turbo miata. Almost everyone on the miata forum said the s2000 is better car. That's why I am here. After my fd3s blew I wanted a reliable car. I thought the mazda speed miata turbo would be reliable like evo/sti motors. Those guys seem to get 400 whp reliable. Not the miata though.
I had eg6/gsr combo. I would love eg6/k24 but on the honda forum board it sounds very hard to get it bard legal. Same with trying to get k24 bard legal in miata. Too much work/money. Nice combo though.
I forgot I also had e36 m3. Honestly I don't know why everyone loves that car so much. It only made around 220 hp in 3200 lb car. You can't but that much tire under the car for the weight of the car. My fd3s was was better. I am not tall. I hard a very difficult time with the factory vador seats, sunroof and helmet on. I would like a z4m coupe but I hear the spit out rod bearings. No thank you.
there is like at least 20+ threads on the miata board that say the s2000 is better
https://forum.miata.net
I had eg6/gsr combo. I would love eg6/k24 but on the honda forum board it sounds very hard to get it bard legal. Same with trying to get k24 bard legal in miata. Too much work/money. Nice combo though.
I forgot I also had e36 m3. Honestly I don't know why everyone loves that car so much. It only made around 220 hp in 3200 lb car. You can't but that much tire under the car for the weight of the car. My fd3s was was better. I am not tall. I hard a very difficult time with the factory vador seats, sunroof and helmet on. I would like a z4m coupe but I hear the spit out rod bearings. No thank you.
there is like at least 20+ threads on the miata board that say the s2000 is better
https://forum.miata.net
04-06-2018, 05:53 PM
#30
Registered User
Thread Starter
I have never owned a corvette. Non of my friends own one either. Mostly Japanese and german cars.
I see few people on here mention the c5 z06. Is this the unicorn corvette? How come not c6 or c7 or other models other than z06?
I see few people on here mention the c5 z06. Is this the unicorn corvette? How come not c6 or c7 or other models other than z06?