Z4 at the track running fast laps..
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Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Waterford
Mrsideways: can you take your shifterkart on a date? What about a quiet cabin and smooth, comfortable ride? You seem to be missing the point of a passenger car; it is to transport passengers. BMW makes no secret of its' compromise between couch-on-wheels and racing vehicle. This means that the car will not be either a couch-on-wheels nor a race-car.
I have an //M3 right now, and my '03 S2k is on its' way. I chose the S2k over a new //M3 because I was looking for a car that would be more involving as a race car and less of a luxury transport.
I definitely agree with your displeasure of the new 350Z. It was designed to please Mr. Average Joe, and not car enthusiasts like ourselves. It is irrelevant to compare the S2k to the 350Z due to their different design goals. Nissan tore a page from the BMW book on compromise, their success is entirely up to the buyer.
The BMW Z4 being surprisingly quick on the track only proves that any car doesn't have to have go-kart feedback to be quick, and keep it's occupants swathed in luxury. I was not impressed with the feedback of the Z4 versus my E-36 //M3. The Z4 seemed more disconnected than I was prepared for, however in placing the car where you wanted, it was precision. It was boringly effortless to control, which is excellent in tearing off consistently quick laps. Look at Ferrari's F1 program; they have the most consistent and easiest handling car out there. No it's not "fun" to drive (according to Mrsideways), but winning races is not about fun anymore, unfortunately.
I have an //M3 right now, and my '03 S2k is on its' way. I chose the S2k over a new //M3 because I was looking for a car that would be more involving as a race car and less of a luxury transport.
I definitely agree with your displeasure of the new 350Z. It was designed to please Mr. Average Joe, and not car enthusiasts like ourselves. It is irrelevant to compare the S2k to the 350Z due to their different design goals. Nissan tore a page from the BMW book on compromise, their success is entirely up to the buyer.
The BMW Z4 being surprisingly quick on the track only proves that any car doesn't have to have go-kart feedback to be quick, and keep it's occupants swathed in luxury. I was not impressed with the feedback of the Z4 versus my E-36 //M3. The Z4 seemed more disconnected than I was prepared for, however in placing the car where you wanted, it was precision. It was boringly effortless to control, which is excellent in tearing off consistently quick laps. Look at Ferrari's F1 program; they have the most consistent and easiest handling car out there. No it's not "fun" to drive (according to Mrsideways), but winning races is not about fun anymore, unfortunately.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 161
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From: Brea
[QUOTE]
Mrsideways: can you take your shifterkart on a date? What about a quiet cabin and smooth, comfortable ride? You seem to be missing the point of a passenger car; it is to transport passengers. BMW makes no secret of its' compromise between couch-on-wheels and racing vehicle. This means that the car will not be either a couch-on-wheels nor a race-car.
Mrsideways: can you take your shifterkart on a date? What about a quiet cabin and smooth, comfortable ride? You seem to be missing the point of a passenger car; it is to transport passengers. BMW makes no secret of its' compromise between couch-on-wheels and racing vehicle. This means that the car will not be either a couch-on-wheels nor a race-car.
Former Moderator
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 8,821
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From: Jacksonville, FL
Originally posted by PedalFaster
The M3 and Z3 were both competitive in A Stock until the S2000 and Boxster came along, and BMWs still do very well in Street Prepared and Street Mod.
The M3 and Z3 were both competitive in A Stock until the S2000 and Boxster came along, and BMWs still do very well in Street Prepared and Street Mod.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,014
Likes: 1
From: Seattle, WA
From http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/national...lts/as_asl.html, it looks like three Z3 drivers took home trophies in 1999, including the second place one. I wasn't there to see it with my own eyes, though, so I could be missing some extenuating circumstances.
Now it's my turn to draw a blank -- are you allowed to tell us who S2kMyWay is in real life? :-)
Steve
Now it's my turn to draw a blank -- are you allowed to tell us who S2kMyWay is in real life? :-)
Steve
Former Moderator
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 8,821
Likes: 5
From: Jacksonville, FL
Right...I forgot TC Kline and Joe Goeke ran a Z3 Coupe.
Hmmm...I don't think I should spoil his fun. 
Now it's my turn to draw a blank -- are you allowed to tell us who S2kMyWay is in real life? :-)
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 274
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From: San Jose, CA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PedalFaster
[B]From http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/national...lts/as_asl.html, it looks like three Z3 drivers took home trophies in 1999, including the second place one.
[B]From http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/national...lts/as_asl.html, it looks like three Z3 drivers took home trophies in 1999, including the second place one.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 488
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From: Estes Park
The Z4 low end torque will make it a formidable contender in autocross if it is classed BS. I found on the track today that if you can pretty much stay in VTEC, the S2000 with stock tires can beat 911's, Boxster S, and a Mini on Hoosiers. But at slow speeds... I'm not so sure.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,491
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From: Rochester, NY
Originally posted by chipperman
The Z4 low end torque will make it a formidable contender in autocross if it is classed BS. I found on the track today that if you can pretty much stay in VTEC, the S2000 with stock tires can beat 911's, Boxster S, and a Mini on Hoosiers. But at slow speeds... I'm not so sure.
The Z4 low end torque will make it a formidable contender in autocross if it is classed BS. I found on the track today that if you can pretty much stay in VTEC, the S2000 with stock tires can beat 911's, Boxster S, and a Mini on Hoosiers. But at slow speeds... I'm not so sure.
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>>>To me it felt no different from any other sedan. And the power was about on terms with a maxima (VQ30) . TO ME, it was unimpressive. <<<
BMWs have excellent road feel. This enables you to exploit their limits with confidence, and outrun cars with better skidpad / slalom numbers. The passenger might feel scared but the driver feels confident and in control. One of the weak points of an S2000 is the poor at-the-limit steering feel, rear suspension related snap oversteer, and bumpy corner handling. The latter two have been somewhat ameliorated in later s2000s.
Stan
BMWs have excellent road feel. This enables you to exploit their limits with confidence, and outrun cars with better skidpad / slalom numbers. The passenger might feel scared but the driver feels confident and in control. One of the weak points of an S2000 is the poor at-the-limit steering feel, rear suspension related snap oversteer, and bumpy corner handling. The latter two have been somewhat ameliorated in later s2000s.
Stan