The C4 debuted in 84 or around there.

I wouldn't say that quality and refinement comes from years. It comes from the material and the attention to details that went in to the vehicle. If it came to years, Oldsmobile has been around the longest. Their vehicles were the same as any other GM. They shared the same components as the other GM brands and had the same (lack of) quality.

Lance

 

It was a C5-R that won in class (GTS) at Le Mans this year. In fact they came #1 and #2. They were so fast and reliable that they even sat out an hour of the race and still won big-time over the Saleen, a $360,000 car. Had they choosen to not play it safe and do a tune up they would have placed in the top 5 overall, higher than any GTS car in history.

Had Honda not brought out the S2000 when it did, that's what I'd be driving.

 

Okay, maybe I was a little vague. I made the assumption that everyone knows the phrase, garbage in garbage out. I thought it was obvious that the quality of the materials and design were inherent to the quality of the car. I don't believe I inferred in any way that if you build a car that lacks quality, over a period of years, it will achieve higher quality standards. That being said, just because the R&D guys did their homework and the manufacturer uses high quality parts does not ensure a high quality vehicle. Honda parts are Honda parts but I would not buy a Honda such as the newer Accords, Odyssey, etc. that are built in the states on the assumption that they are the same quality as the previous years built in Japan.

 

I also would drive a C5 vette, especially the Z06, and considered it seriously before buying my S2K. I feel GM "fit and finish" is terrible but the powertrain engineers do a great job. I'd take a GM tow vehicle any day (and overload it in the desert without any hesitation). Oh, and I HATE most current GM styling, vette and F-bodies excluded.

GM dealers are amazingly bad, taken as a group. I work with GM engineers as customers and they all tell me about how they have to pull strings to apply muscle to their dealers who won't fix their complaints. I pity the non-GM employee situation.

Ugh! I really wanted to buy American and I ended up with 99+% Japanese because I also did not want to compromise on style, performance, and value. Oh well.

 

Clearly Shizon came here in friendship. He did not bash our car and yet some of us has been a little less than polite. People have said that those on this forum are a great bunch of folks. I'd be one of the first jump over somebody's butt if they came in shooting but we should, especially when there is no provocation, mind our P's & Q's. If you've followed any of my early posts, you'll know I've owned 2 Vettes, 1 of 'em a ZR-1. I'm no fan of 'my' 2 Vettes in terms of quality and such but I can't say every Vette owner feels the same way. And I've always been in awe of the Vette's performance regardless of it's daily living characteristics. Like Shizon, I'm a car nut. He just happens to own a C5 right now and we (I) just happen to own an S right now. Another time, another place, just for the Hell of it, I might own a ZO6. (some of us just never learn, but what fun chance of a mistake that would be)

 

This is an S2000 board and if he doesn't want to hear negative comments about his vette, then he needs to go to a vette board. This board has had it's share of camaro and s4 owners coming over here. We are not going over there to stir things up.

If he is happy with his purcahse then that is all that matters. In no way do I respect the vette at all. Too mnay old people driving them that couldn't keep up with the three cylinder Geo Metro going up a big hill.

Little do people know, but there are actually 6 different versions of the vette.

http://www.net1plus.com/users/tpenny/Vette.html

 

Ianbrown,

My only problem with your comment is that shizon is a person. He own's a car, a different one then you own. He came here to learn about the S2000. Someone happened to post, what is a C5, so he showed his. You then felt the need to bash his car. WHY? You have nothing better to do today? The problem was that you stated it was a POS and left it at that. You offered no evidence, and no reason why until later, and then you told us to go look it up ourselves.

I have had this problem since joining the H-A.net board a long time ago. People have this annoying need to spout out all this negative crap when it wasn't asked for or necessary. You feel the Vette is a POS, fine, no need to tell us about it. Now if I start a post that says, is the C5 a POS? then give me your answer, no need for the negativity, IMO.

Also, just to relate a Honda customer service snafu just to show that GM isn't the only one with CS problems. I had TSB #55 done on my car along with the seatbelt recall (is this a safety hazard!!). I told my dealer to take as LONG as they NEED. I want it done right, and this is about 3 weeks before Asheville. I get the car back after 1.5 WEEKS. That's fine, it's done right, so I think. So about a week before I leave for Asheville, I smell a burning smell. It doesn't go away after a couple of days, so I bring the car in Wednesday morning before Asheville (I know this was tight, but hey they had the car for a 1.5 weeks, it's done right) and I stand there for an hour before anyone helps me. The service guys know me, and know my plight (I'm leaving for Asheville that day).

So I take a tech out, he says the tranny is leaking. GREAT!! I leave the car there, well I get a call FIVE hours later telling me that the car isn't being looked at until tomorrow because the original TECH is not in today. It took them FIVE hours to tell me this. And the reason no one can look at it, a top Honda rep is there and won't allow it. Well, the tech comes in Thursday (still not too late for me leave if it gets done) and he looks at the car, and says the seals are bad, they have to ORDER these!! They will be in on Friday, my car was completed at 5pm Friday!! No one went out of there way for me, if the car had been LOOKED at on Wed., it would have been fixed on Thursday. So don't tell me Honda doesn't want to pass the buck. The reason the same tech had to do the job, because if he f'ed up, Honda was going to put the blame on him, and the tech can't bill if he is fixing his fault. They knew what my dilemma was, but they still decided to SCREW the customer. Oh, and my family lives an hour from Asheville.

Sorry for the length.

ERIK

 

Nice Vette.

 

Erik,

It is common knowledge that the American cars are behind the Japanese as well as the Europeans in terms of quality. You don't have to look to far for proof. It is usuall shown in the paper about three times a year. Lets not forget TV. Do a search on the Internet, you will find more studies then you will EVER want to read. If you didn't know that the American cars are inferior in terms of quality, then I feel sorry for you.

Dis I say anything about Shizon? No, I made statements about the car that he drives. Why do people deface property that belongs to another? Why do some believe that we should only buy American cars because the Japanese tried to kill us. I saw a WW2 plate on a Honda before. He obviously forgave them for trying to kill him. They didn't try to kill me. I'm happy that Shizon own a car, as do most here. Different then my own, well good again. It would be boring if we all drove the same exact thing.

No compnay is perfect. The big three only worry abount one customer, and it is the same for all three of them. Can you guess who it is; Wall Street. As long as they are happy, then the management is happy and they get their big fat checks for making defective products that kill people. Ford says built Ford tough. After seeing how the F150 performed, that isn't very tough. Chevy, built like a rock. Most of the ones I've had moved like one. Why didn't the dealer put a different tech on your car? If the seal repair takes 5 hours, it really doesn't matter who does it. It seems to me like you have a poor dealer in your area.

Did you feel your post was necessary?

 

Here is a C5:
http://4wd.sofcom.com/Citroen/Cars/C5.html

Nordic and makes a NordicCycle C5

So there are many C5's in the world.