BTW.... IMO, a bunch of assholes over there (spyder thread). I hope we don't look that bad from the outer world.....

 

I honestly think s2ki.com is one of the best forums out there.

I certainly like it more than Saabnet.com and I have a Saab!!

 

Some people pretend that we are "elitist snobs", I don't know where they come up with these things, except for a few "weeds" we have a great and open minded bunch of people here.

 

I'd have to concur that this message forum is more open-minded than the Spyder one from an outsiders perspective looking in (don't own either car). Aside from a couple of Porsche and Ferrari sites that I frequent, oh and a Lexus site, I like this one a lot. Something I've noticed from a psychological perspective is that the need to "brag" about one's car or to "mod" it is inversely proportional to the value of the car and often the age of the driver.

Take as an example the Ferrari F-360, most of the guys with them never mod them unless it is simple and sweet and won't destabilize the car in any way, you won't find F-360 owners "chipping" their cars. Then come down to say BMW M Roadster or Porsche Boxster owners. A few of them will modify their cars, but since the factory has been really good about squeezing out horsepower often times there isn't a lot you can do with out major changes. Take for example the stock exhaust on a Boxster S is better performance wise than 95% of all aftermarket exhausts, sound is debatable but dyno charts don't lie. You don't see an M Roadster owner buying "blue look" headlights or "ultra whites". Moving down in price to the S2000 you see a bit more mods and a bit more bragging, but since it is still over 30K, it's still within reasonable amounts IMHO. Once you break below the 30K barrier you start running into these guys who "coulda bought the Porsche if I wanted..." and "dude check out my stainless steel quadruple pipe exhaust with tips by Folgers" or "with only 20K in mods I can kick your &*&@#". These things become much more prevalent. This seems to hold true for both american cars (mustangs and camaros as an example) and for japanese cars (Spyders and Civics as an example). I think the notion of "Snobbery" runs in the opposite direction. Owners below 30K are much more likely to view a Porsche or BMW owner as a "Snob" than say a BMW owner is vs. a Ferrari owner.

I've also noticed a difference in the ability to "follow through" or "organize" among the differing groups of owners. I'm not certain where S2K owners fall so please feel free to give me your opinions. A couple of examples come to mind, both Boxster and Z3 owners have a national annual event that is well attended by owners from across the country. These owners are willing to step up and do what it takes to make something like that a success because they enjoy their cars and enjoy sharing their experiences with other owners. I'm not sure this is the case below 30K. Spyder owners tried for almost a year to organize a national event and nothing ever happened, too many differing strong opinions and no organization. Even if we look at something like a modification to the car I've found that owners under 30K like to "talk" a lot about how they'd buy some modification if it were available, but once it is available few will actually step up and buy it, the turbo for the Spyder being just one example, although probably a more noticeable one since the car came from the factory with low HP, Miatas fall into the same boat although since they've been around longer I think their owners have mellowed a bit and have more female owners.

This makes me wonder about some newer cars as well. Take the Lexus IS 300, a shade over 30K, although dealers were marking them up, instantly equipped with "riceboy" tailights and gauges. At over 30K I'm not certain their largest target audience can afford it but rather they seem to be targeting the "tweeners" - people who are in the process of making the transition in life from a below 30K car to an above 30K car and trying to provide them aspects of both. Not frequenting any IS 300 sites I can only imagine what a hodge podge that must be.

If anyone is doing a psychological study, I think this would make an interesting subject to examine especially when crossed with age of the individual as another factor. Many of the under 30K crowd tend to be younger and less seasoned. I actually ran my own interesting experiment last year that bears out a lot of this. I was working in California for a year and needed something cheap and sporty since I knew I'd be selling it after I moved to my new location. I bought a Spyder because I "thought" that the experience would be similar to Z3's, Boxsters and other sporty convertibles that I've owned in the past. From a "fun to drive" perspective it was, make no mistake the car was fun to drive, but from an ownership perspective it was vastly different. People wanting me to stick coffee can exhausts on my car, ultra white headlights, carbon fiber dash kits, etc. I tried a few mods (really reminded me of high school but without the big block engine to go with it) and came to the conclusion about what a waste of time it was, I quickly grew tired of others trying to tell me what was best for me or for my car. There is a big difference between "opinionated" and enthusiast. "But duuuude if you only stick a turbo on that thing you will rock!!!", yeah whatever. So I sold the car and moved back above 30K and what do you know - sanity!

Now some of you might be sitting there going "I own a Honda Civic and I'm not like that". True, absolutely, couldn't agree more, I would never say that ALL owners are like this. Heck the majority of car owners buy a car for simple transportation and never do anything to it other than put gas in it. However, on a percentage basis of overall owners I find that 30K seems to be near the cut-off point in attitude of those who do feel more enthusiastic about what they drive. If you spend time with owners of each car as I've done in person and through forums like this, you'll probably discover that what I've outlined here is true. Does it make one better than the other? Not really, just different. It is human nature to gravitate to others that we feel more comfortable with, I didn't realize how uncomfortable I was with the group under 30K until I bought a car under 30K last year and hung out with some of them. They weren't "bad people" they just didn't talk about things I was interested in or want to do things I like to do. Moving over 30K and hanging out with a different crowd I feel more comfortable because they like to do things I like to do and we share common experiences. Does this mean I won't talk to someone who owns a car less than 30K? Absolutely not, heck just last weekend myself and my bud that owns an S2K went out cruising with our girlfriends on a Friday night because the temp had cooled off. Stop for ice cream, hang out and talk. At one point we pull into a gas station to get something to drink. We come out and there are a bunch of people near our cars and one guy with a mustang wants to race. Why? "I've done X mod and Y mod and I think I'm faster than you". Hey great, good for you, but I don't care, I have a serious girlfriend and I'm man enough to admit I like ice cream!

So to sum up, I find this site, and the owners here to be more representative of the over 30K (and possibly over 30 ) crowd than the under 30K crowd. For me, that's a plus and one of the reasons I like reading this site to compare some of the experiences with other over 30 owners.

My intention in this message again is not to put any owner "down" or try to make anyone feel "superior" it is merely a summation of human behaviorial observations that I have made relative to the different cars that these individuals own.

I am curious if others have noticed the same thing?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by S2Ken
[B]I'd have to concur that this message forum is more open-minded than the Spyder one from an outsiders perspective looking in (don't own either car).

 

I tend to agree with you, but I would see reasons to explain this. Cars that are cheaper are sold in larger quantities and have a bigger aftermarket and cheaper parts so people are more likely to mod. Also, in cheaper cars, the engineers have more of a budgetary constraint than anything else so the best exhaust will not be chosen etc, etc. Also, cheaper cars are bought by younger people, about 5 years ago, I had an Eagle Talon TSI AWD, I had about 5k worth of mods such as Sound systems and mags... The car was stolen, however those things added crap value-wise to the car, the sound system loosened up the car and made all sorts of rattles. I believe there comes a point in life where you start thinking smarter, you realise that some mods are pissed away especially if you don't race the car. On my next car which was a 1998 Prelude SH, I kept myself from wasting money on mods and put money aside that i used as a down payment on the s2k.

I have come to the conclusion that it is better to put money aside and just upgrade to the next best thing, however, with the s2k, it is going to be hard unless an S3000, S2000 Type R or a more affordable NSX comes along since the car is already so much fun unless of course you have the Mucho dineros $$$ to get a F 360 or a 911 TT...

 

I think that most of the observations here are valid. I find that even I have changed a lot since my 20s... and I remember those Under 30k days when I owned my MR-2s. Lately I find that I temper all modification choices through the "comfort and reliability" filter more than I did before. Also, I can't help but continue to struggle with my decision of NSX or S2000. Each have their own merits but each have a different crowd and perception associated with them.

On another note - I miss spyderweb.net. Just wanted to let you know Ken, that it was one of the more impressive and organized sites for any given car. I hope it comes back some time so I can refer other MR-S owners out there to it...

 

Scythe1969,
Thanks for the kind comments about www.spyderweb.net. It was certainly a labor of love and at one time was the largest MR2 Spyder site on the web, and maybe one of the larger ones overall. The problem was that NO ONE from the Spyder community was willing to help run it besides me, no donations, no volunteers, nuthin, zip, zilch, nada. A couple of other owners who wanted to help saw what poor reaction there was among Spyder owners and backed out and subsequently sold their cars too. If anything many Spyder owners have hurt sales more than helped while the website certainly helped, even got a nice response from Toyota regarding the site. After I sold my car I gave, that's right gave, didn't even sell, wasn't worth it to try, the site away to another Spyder owner who has done limited work on the site thus far to keep it going (last 2 months) at a new URL www.spydermagazine.com. I think that probably comes with age too, younger owners don't have the time or the desire to help out with a website or donate to a cause, maybe I should have been marketing a cadillac site to retirees in Florida?

I've actually set up a private site for my current car and have several users who actively participate but everything is done by word of mouth, I don't advertise or put listings in a search engine. That way I am assured that people who join are really enthusiasts and for the most part have been willing to chip in $ or their time to help out. I'm much more pleased with the results when I can see that the time and effort I put into something amounts to something that people appreciate for what it is as opposed to getting defensive because it isn't like "some other site" etc.

There was also an interesting sub-set of people I spotted in the Spyder community. These were owners who were over 50, but for some reason felt like they had missed out on life and rushed out and bought a Spyder and then proceeded to tell the younger owners what a great choice they'd made and how they did things back in high school. I equate them to the same individuals whose peak in life was high school and look at their high school reunion as the biggest event of the decade. I'm curious if there are many over 50 owners of the S2000 and if so what they are like? Hopefully they aren't of the type that try to tell everyone what the answers are to life's lessons as opposed to letting people live their own lives and make their own decisions. Although there are plenty of over 50 BMW, Porsche and Ferrari owners I know, none of them act in this fashion. Just some more observations.

 

Well first of all, Spyderweb.net has not gone away, it just changed hands. You may find it in its entirety at www.spydermagazine.com. You may want to ask yourself, "Why is this S2Ken guy so down on Spyders and Spyder drivers?" And while you are at it, ask yourself, "Why is he posting here and not on Spyderchat.com, the largest MR2 Spyder website in the world?" S2Ken does NOT own an S2K, strange isn't it?

Taking the second question first... Kenny can't post on Spyderchat.com because he is the ONLY person in the long history of that board to be banned. He was banned because one day he decided to hack Spyderchat and to delete quite a few valuable threads. Kenny will deny this, but the evidence is airtight. The logs don't lie. The irony is that Kenny is an Internet SECURITY consultant.

Kenny suffers from bad head chemistry. At one time he owned a Spyder, a pretty little Solar Yellow Spyder. He now describes the color as "piss yellow." I guess tastes change. He loved the car and even put up a website in praise of it. When the members of that site started to see him for the megalomaniac that he is, he sold his car and gave away the site. He still posts there, but everyone would be a lot happier if he would not. Go there and check it out, perhaps that is why he did not tell you that it was still up. Now all he does is bad rap Spyders and Spyder drivers to any and all who will listen. He claims to drive a Ferrari Modena Spider, but I think everyone knows that is just so much B.S. What he does drive is a second hand Boxster. The Texas Chili farts of the previous owner are still working their way out of the driver's seat.

Now Kenny will claim that all I do is follow him around the net posting lies about him, but check my posts folks, they are few and far between. Why am I doing this? Because you have a very nice board here and, for the most part, a sensible membership. It is only a matter of time before S2Ken goes ballistic and causes the same sort of trouble here that he caused on our site. Forewarned is forearmed.

I can only imagine what S2Ken is doing while he reads your posts agreeing with him that the Spyder is a piece of crap and the drivers of that car are beneath contempt. The truth is that the S2000 is a great sportscar and so is the MR2 Spyder. The drivers of both cars share a bond that Kenny will never understand. That bond is the one that exists among all motorsports enthusiasts. Kenny sees his enemies everywhere.

Watch your back.

Yer Pal,

Ed Black

 

Ed,

It kind of looks like you are stalking him or at least have some sort of obsession:
http://www.spyderchat.com/forum/showthread...e=&view=&sb=&o=

After an hour or two of looking around the spyderchat archives, it looks like you enjoyed instigating problems between spyderweb.net and spyderchat.net, repeating the same tired insults over and over until Ken shut down spyderweb.net, and you are now bringing it over to S2ki.

I don't know what your agenda is, but you are going to look like the one with 'bad head chemistry' if you keep following him around the web, posting crap like this.

Tanq