S2000 Talk Discussions related to the S2000, its ownership and enthusiasm for it.

18k rpm

Thread Tools
 
Old Jul 27, 2010 | 05:31 PM
  #21  
spook's Avatar
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,513
Likes: 3
From: Laguna Beach
Default

Hahahahahaha
Reply
Old Jul 27, 2010 | 06:49 PM
  #22  
21337R's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,208
Likes: 1
Default

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_engines

Formula One currently uses four-stroke V8, naturally-aspirated reciprocating engines. They typically produce 224 kilowatts (300 bhp, 304 PS) per litre of displacement, far higher than most internal combustion engines.[citation needed] For comparison, the naturally-aspirated piston engine production car with the most specific power is the Honda S2000 engine with 92 kW (123 bhp, 125 PS) per litre.[citation needed]

The power a Formula One engine produces is generated by operating at a very high rotational speed, up to 18,000 revolutions per minute (RPM).[1] This contrasts with road car engines of a similar size which operate safely at typically less than 7,000 rpm. However, the torque (turning force at a given speed) of a Formula One engine is not much higher than a conventional petrol engine. For example, the 2006 2.4 litre Toyota RVX-06 V8 engine produces 552 kW (740 bhp, 751 PS) at 19,000 rpm and outputs 274 N·m (202 lb·ft) of torque giving the engine a 14.3 bar (1.43 MPa) mean effective pressure. This is comparable with the 14.3 bar maximum MEP of the 2003 BMW E46 M3 CSL, the best production car in this respect.

Consequently, high power is obtained by making an engine turn faster, a goal sought ever since research into performance engines began.[citation needed] The basic configuration of a naturally-aspirated Formula One engine has not been greatly modified since the 1967 Cosworth DFV and the mean effective pressure has stayed at around 14 bar MEP.[2] Until the mid-1980s Formula One engines were limited to around 12,000 rpm due to the traditional metal valve springs used inside the engine to close the valves. The speed required to operate the engine valves at a higher RPM is much greater than the metal valve springs can handle and they were replaced by Pneumatic valve springs introduced by Renault.[citation needed] Since the 1990s all[citation needed] Formula One engine manufacturers now use pneumatic valve springs with the pressurised air allowing engines to reach speeds nearly 20,000 rpm.

The bore is the diameter of the cylinder hole in the engine block for the piston and the stroke is the distance the piston travels from Top Dead Center(TDC) to Bottom Dead Center(BDC) inside the cylinder. A shorter stroke enables the engine to produce a higher rotating speed at a constant mean piston speed but also increases the speed at which the piston must travel in each revolution. Shortening the stroke however requires enlarging the bore to produce a Formula One engine's 2.4 litre displacement resulting in a less efficient combustion chamber.[citation needed] The stroke of a Formula One engine is approximately 39.7 mm (1.563 in), less than half as long as the bore is wide (98.0 mm) producing an "over-square" configuration.

A 2.4 litre Formula One engine at 19,000 rpm has a 25 m/s mean piston speed (39.7 mm×2×19000 rpm / 60), the same value as the previously mentioned Honda S2000 engine (84 mm×2×8900 rpm/60). This value is typically limited by increasing intake port velocities and frictional losses, but is attained by commercial vehicle engines, like the Honda S2000, BMW E46 M3's S54B32 with 24.5 m/s as far back as 2001, the Audi RS4 with 24.2 m/s or the Yamaha YZF-R6 motorcycle with 23 m/s.

In addition to the use of pneumatic valve springs a Formula One engine's high RPM output has been made possible due to advances in metallurgy and design allowing lighter pistons and connecting rods to withstand the accelerations necessary to attain such high speeds, also by narrowing the connecting rod ends allowing for narrower main bearings. This allows higher RPM's with less bearing-damaging heat buildup. At each revolution, the piston goes from a null speed to almost two times the mean speed (approx. 40 m/s) then back to zero, and then another similar cycle to terminate the circle. Maximum piston acceleration occurs at TDC and is in the area of 95,000 m/s², about 10,000 times standard gravity.
Reply
Old Jul 27, 2010 | 07:53 PM
  #23  
99SH's Avatar
20 Year Member
Photogenic
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,677
Likes: 9
Default

Gotta ask, but what is the attraction in revving to 18k?

Realize that you're comparing a million dollar race car to a $30k street wagon. You can't run those gear ratios matched to a high RPM motor on the streets. We need low end torque for city driving. A 7000rpm idle isn't exactly practical either...
Reply
Old Jul 27, 2010 | 08:10 PM
  #24  
spook's Avatar
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,513
Likes: 3
From: Laguna Beach
Default

Originally Posted by 99SH,Jul 27 2010, 07:53 PM
Realize that you're comparing a million dollar race car to a $30k street wagon. You can't run those gear ratios matched to a high RPM motor on the streets. We need low end torque for city driving. A 7000rpm idle isn't exactly practical either...
This.
Reply
Old Jul 27, 2010 | 11:12 PM
  #25  
blueducatikidd's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,840
Likes: 1
From: Union Co NJ
Default

Reply
Old Jul 27, 2010 | 11:51 PM
  #26  
MBHs2k's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,875
Likes: 5
From: Santa Clartia, Ca
Default

I am sure that making an 18k four cylinder is possible. But what would the need for this be?? Not to many people are going to buy a 18k car. could you imagine how loud the motor would be. good luck making a transmission that will withstand a 100k miles revving that high. It would horrible gas mileage and would be very unreliable.
Cool idea i guess for car enthusiasts but not sensible in any way.
Reply
Old Jul 27, 2010 | 11:57 PM
  #27  
amirgho's Avatar
Registered User
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
From: Sactown
Default

If you like this concept OP why not swap the S2000's F2x with a Hayabusa, turbo'd prly.

That would be pretty awesome and i know of several kit cars that use the Hayabusa Turbo engine

Imagine the look on that V8 guy's face when u tell him he got smoked in a 1.3L xD
Reply
Old Jul 28, 2010 | 12:19 AM
  #28  
BlackBearTX's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,435
Likes: 1
From: Arizona
Default

This is pointless to read so I didn't read it.
What You Probably Didn't Know: Peak piston speed of the 1999 - 2003 S2000 at its 8900-rpm redline: 4906 feet/minute. Piston speed of a Ferrari F1-2000 (the championship-winning, 2000-season F1 car) at 18,000 rpm: 4890 feet/minute.
http://m.jalopnik.com/5426649/jalopniks-be...decade/gallery/
Reply
Old Jul 28, 2010 | 12:20 AM
  #29  
whiteflash's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 23,911
Likes: 4
From: Benicia, CA
Default

Originally Posted by amirgho,Jul 27 2010, 11:57 PM
If you like this concept OP why not swap the S2000's F2x with a Hayabusa, turbo'd prly.

That would be pretty awesome and i know of several kit cars that use the Hayabusa Turbo engine

Imagine the look on that V8 guy's face when u tell him he got smoked in a 1.3L xD
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV4HdsDZX6c [/media]
Reply
Old Jul 28, 2010 | 12:21 AM
  #30  
don2007's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,017
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles
Default

Originally Posted by ginaprincess,Jul 27 2010, 04:27 AM
This is more of a curiosity type of question and nothing more. I guess the question I'm going to ask is more for the tech savvy of this forum, but here it is

- Why Honda did not build an S2k revving 18k rpm?

Sounds like a weird question? Impossible for a 4 cyl to rev 8k rpm you say?

Well, look at it this way; F1 cars can rev 18k rpm. I know they are 10 cyl engines, but does it matters in terms of reliability issue revving 10 cyl at 18k rpm vs. a 4 cyl engine to rev that high?

I don't see the difference, honestly. If a cylinder rev 18k times per minute, does it matter that 10 cyl do it at the same time vs. 4 cyl? I'm speaking just for reliability issue here, since most of you probably will say: THE S2k IS A 4 CYL, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO MEKE IT REV 18k rpm, UNLIKE A 10 CYL

Well, is it it really impossible to make 4 cyl revving 18kk rpm? Instead of 10 cylinders revving to 18k, we'd have 4 cyl revving to 18k

What's the problem with that? If F1 cars can race 3 hours in a row at 18k rpm, why not the S2k?

So I'm going back to my original question: Why Honda did not make a special S2k version to rev 18k rpm?

I'm not an engineer and am clueless about engines...... I am just asking an hypothetical question here
Are you high?
Reply



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:27 PM.