2004 honda lineup
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Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Farmington Hills
Toyota and GM has a joint venture plant in Ca. This allowed GM to see how Toyota does business. Besides that, there is not much else between the two. GM gets more out of the JV then Toyota does.
6sigma,
Why should anyone give GM another shot? I got screwed many times by their lousy products and there we don't care attitude they still have. It wouldn't matter if they made vehicles with zero problems, cheaper then the competition, free maintenance and better styling, they still wouldn't see a dime for me. I wrote them off for good. They do not care about the customer and their dealers just plain suck. According to them they either all do that or that's not covered under warranty. That is all they can say. I warned them several years ago when I left, "One day you will be sorry and wished you had loyal customers like myself. I was with you when the economy was bad as well as labor disputes. None of those events kept me from buying a new vehicle every few years. The same held true with the rest of my family, they offered you their support. We didn't turn our back on you ever, but when we have a problem, you are the ones that turn your back on us. I gave you ample time and opportunity to remedy the situation. I don't expect a vehicle to be problem free, but do expect it to be repaired. All that was done was the lack of follow up on your part, I made repeated calls only to get a call back a few times and still nothing was down. You have chosen to send us to another auto company and never buy from you again. While the industry is at their peak right now with record sales year after year and you starting to reclaim market share, these days will not last. Sales will decline and you will be looking for revenue and you will have no one to blame except yourself. This may not be this year or next year, but it will happen. Just remember who did this to you, yourself by alienating customers."
That was part of a letter that I sent to several key GM employees. This included the brand manager for the vehicle, head of customer care, head of marketing and the CEO of GM. I never once got a response from them. Now they are struggling to sell vehicles, as 0% is just no longer working so now it is time for cash rebates as well. In the 90's and before, they never discounted any full-size truck, which is what I had. They make plenty on them and they could have made their money make in less than a decade. They decided to cut their losses right there. In the long-term, it will hurt them and it is only catching up to them now in a pronounced way.
The reason why you see so many on the road is because of leasing. They have cutthroat leasing deals just to keep vehicles moving. Look at what less than $300 can get you now, in the 90's $300 would be the Cavalier and Malibu range. Now with nothing down or minimal down you can get an Envoy.
6sigma,
Why should anyone give GM another shot? I got screwed many times by their lousy products and there we don't care attitude they still have. It wouldn't matter if they made vehicles with zero problems, cheaper then the competition, free maintenance and better styling, they still wouldn't see a dime for me. I wrote them off for good. They do not care about the customer and their dealers just plain suck. According to them they either all do that or that's not covered under warranty. That is all they can say. I warned them several years ago when I left, "One day you will be sorry and wished you had loyal customers like myself. I was with you when the economy was bad as well as labor disputes. None of those events kept me from buying a new vehicle every few years. The same held true with the rest of my family, they offered you their support. We didn't turn our back on you ever, but when we have a problem, you are the ones that turn your back on us. I gave you ample time and opportunity to remedy the situation. I don't expect a vehicle to be problem free, but do expect it to be repaired. All that was done was the lack of follow up on your part, I made repeated calls only to get a call back a few times and still nothing was down. You have chosen to send us to another auto company and never buy from you again. While the industry is at their peak right now with record sales year after year and you starting to reclaim market share, these days will not last. Sales will decline and you will be looking for revenue and you will have no one to blame except yourself. This may not be this year or next year, but it will happen. Just remember who did this to you, yourself by alienating customers."
That was part of a letter that I sent to several key GM employees. This included the brand manager for the vehicle, head of customer care, head of marketing and the CEO of GM. I never once got a response from them. Now they are struggling to sell vehicles, as 0% is just no longer working so now it is time for cash rebates as well. In the 90's and before, they never discounted any full-size truck, which is what I had. They make plenty on them and they could have made their money make in less than a decade. They decided to cut their losses right there. In the long-term, it will hurt them and it is only catching up to them now in a pronounced way.
The reason why you see so many on the road is because of leasing. They have cutthroat leasing deals just to keep vehicles moving. Look at what less than $300 can get you now, in the 90's $300 would be the Cavalier and Malibu range. Now with nothing down or minimal down you can get an Envoy.
Registered User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 390
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From: TH
Have you seen the latest GM ad campaign?
http://www.gm.com/vc/story/home_flash.htm
Fitting subject I'd say. GM has made lots of mistakes over lots of years, and not all have been rectified. Many loyal buyers have been alienated. GM (and F, DCX) have been losing market share fairly consistently for decades now. The competition was and is better in many categories. But, I give GM a nod for acknowledging their position and at least attempting to improve it. Cars are all about product - remember Chrysler in the early 80's? It took the gvmnt, Lee Iacocca, and relatively decent product (K-car) to keep them from death. Of the big three, I think GM has the best product line looking forward a few years. Their V8 is good, their transmissions are good, their trucks are good, Caddy & Corvette are good, and their other cars can be good if they can leverage their V8 drivetrain strengths in cars (CTS-V, next Impala, Nomad concept, etc). They still have a long way to go to win back buyers though. Some may never come back and that is the price GM will pay for their mistakes.
http://www.gm.com/vc/story/home_flash.htm
Fitting subject I'd say. GM has made lots of mistakes over lots of years, and not all have been rectified. Many loyal buyers have been alienated. GM (and F, DCX) have been losing market share fairly consistently for decades now. The competition was and is better in many categories. But, I give GM a nod for acknowledging their position and at least attempting to improve it. Cars are all about product - remember Chrysler in the early 80's? It took the gvmnt, Lee Iacocca, and relatively decent product (K-car) to keep them from death. Of the big three, I think GM has the best product line looking forward a few years. Their V8 is good, their transmissions are good, their trucks are good, Caddy & Corvette are good, and their other cars can be good if they can leverage their V8 drivetrain strengths in cars (CTS-V, next Impala, Nomad concept, etc). They still have a long way to go to win back buyers though. Some may never come back and that is the price GM will pay for their mistakes.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,849
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From: Wake Forest, NC
As an expectant buyer of 2004 S2000, three very important things for me:
- keep redline at 8900rpm
- keep digital instrument panel
- keep 50/50 weight distro.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed!
- keep redline at 8900rpm
- keep digital instrument panel
- keep 50/50 weight distro.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed!
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,455
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From: Farmington Hills
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 6sigma
[B]Have you seen the latest GM ad campaign?
http://www.gm.com/vc/story/home_flash.htm
Fitting subject I'd say.
[B]Have you seen the latest GM ad campaign?
http://www.gm.com/vc/story/home_flash.htm
Fitting subject I'd say.
Registered User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 390
Likes: 1
From: TH
Can't argue with most of your points. GM non-V8 engines suck. The new inline 6 is getting good reviews, but I have not driven it yet. Small block family is good though, and Northstar is not terrible but does need updated (XLR is an improvement). I don't have a problem with old-tech pushrods IF the engine can compete. LS-6 405HP, 400tq, 30mpg, without variable valve timing or OHC is OK by me. Honda is a supreme engine builder, the world leader perhaps. GM needs to leverage their V8 drivetrains into RWD car applications - that is where their product can compete. Caddy should be all RWD.
I have OnStar and have renewed it beyond the one-year freebie. It is analog, however, I have used the OnStar phone in the boonies when no digital signal was available and none of the 3 present pocket phones could grab the analog signal. Full 3-watts of power from OnStar was crystal clear. There is still more analog coverage in the US than digital and that is why they chose analog. It should be dual-mode - best of both worlds. OnStar can read me my e-mail and send a WAV reply. It can get traffic, stocks, weather, etc on demand, all on the basic subscription. It is actually a cool service that most don't know exists or how to use it or that their vehicle even has it. The phone part is just an added bonus, used for urgency or if I forget my pocket phone. GM deserves some credit for pursuing the idea, even if not perfectly executed. How about OEM XM installations - GM being the first and I hear Honda is following.
I have OnStar and have renewed it beyond the one-year freebie. It is analog, however, I have used the OnStar phone in the boonies when no digital signal was available and none of the 3 present pocket phones could grab the analog signal. Full 3-watts of power from OnStar was crystal clear. There is still more analog coverage in the US than digital and that is why they chose analog. It should be dual-mode - best of both worlds. OnStar can read me my e-mail and send a WAV reply. It can get traffic, stocks, weather, etc on demand, all on the basic subscription. It is actually a cool service that most don't know exists or how to use it or that their vehicle even has it. The phone part is just an added bonus, used for urgency or if I forget my pocket phone. GM deserves some credit for pursuing the idea, even if not perfectly executed. How about OEM XM installations - GM being the first and I hear Honda is following.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,830
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From: Johnson City
Out of GM's lineup how many get 30+ mpg highway?
I think i saw something where 9out of 10 toyota vehicles get 30 mpg.. I'm sure honda is right in line with this figure..
I don't like gm that much but their new inline 6 is super duper smooth... 6sigma... if you haven't driven one you need to.
I wish they would use this engine in their passenger cars or bring over their opel brand from the UK. The inline 6 in the trailblazer is BMW smooth and very powerful.
I think i saw something where 9out of 10 toyota vehicles get 30 mpg.. I'm sure honda is right in line with this figure..
I don't like gm that much but their new inline 6 is super duper smooth... 6sigma... if you haven't driven one you need to.
I wish they would use this engine in their passenger cars or bring over their opel brand from the UK. The inline 6 in the trailblazer is BMW smooth and very powerful.
