4.44 final gear vs. 4.77
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Hmmmm Okay...sounded to good in my head to be true.....I remember some one sayin 1/2 second off the quarter mile time fo the 4.44.......A few people on this board have installed the 4.44 ....I know of no one that installed the 4.77
It will not reduce your 1/4 mile times by 8% or 15%. It would be more like increasing the amount of power by 8% or 15%, which we all know is not going to improve 1/4 mile times
Hmmmm Okay...sounded to good in my head to be true.....I remember some one sayin 1/2 second off the quarter mile time fo the 4.44.......A few people on this board have installed the 4.44 ....I know of no one that installed the 4.77
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Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Las Olas and Brickell, FL
I'm really looking to break into the 13.5Xs Will 4.44s and a toda flywheel get me there(combined with nothing less than perfect shifting of course). I'm sure the 4.77s will do it.
Actually I may come close to that 4.77
I have ATS secondary mission gear which is 4.5 and 4.3 Jets ring&pinion in differential.
I did this because back when I wanted to do basically I was limited to ATS and Spoon and Jets.
I have ATS secondary mission gear which is 4.5 and 4.3 Jets ring&pinion in differential.
I did this because back when I wanted to do basically I was limited to ATS and Spoon and Jets.
Note this isn't based on actual experience (drag racing or making such modifications). Rather based on physics.
Yes, changing final drive ratio should increase acceleration and reduce top end speed. BUT...
It isn't a panacea. It will require that you shift more often. As has been mentioned, for a given speed or distance, if it adds another shift, it may be slower. It's a give and take.
Example: Mod 4.77 vs Stock 4.1
In first, you'll have more accel due to the higher overall gearing (if you can get the power down). But you shift at a lower road speed, ~38mph vs 44. So once you shift, you now have less accel than with the stock FD (2nd gear * higher FD = lower overall ratio than 1st gear * base FD). When you shift the stock at 44, the mod again has more accel than stock. Until you get to 58 mph where you again have to shift (stock shifts at ~68mph). So, a 0-60 requires an added shift. And so on through the gears. You'll also be close to a shift to 5th in the quarter-mile. Bottom line, gearing is not fully a replacement for more power.
Also, highway cruise rpm will be 4.77/4.1=1.16x higher. 60mph is now ~3600 vs 3100 rpm.
Top speed? Little change. Like most cars, the S2000 is drag-limited not gear-limited. If you use a 4.77 however, you will be gear limited to about 148 @ 9000 rpm. Stock, if it can hit 150, that occurs at 7800 rpm. Somewhat below the peak power.
Yes, changing final drive ratio should increase acceleration and reduce top end speed. BUT...
It isn't a panacea. It will require that you shift more often. As has been mentioned, for a given speed or distance, if it adds another shift, it may be slower. It's a give and take.
Example: Mod 4.77 vs Stock 4.1
In first, you'll have more accel due to the higher overall gearing (if you can get the power down). But you shift at a lower road speed, ~38mph vs 44. So once you shift, you now have less accel than with the stock FD (2nd gear * higher FD = lower overall ratio than 1st gear * base FD). When you shift the stock at 44, the mod again has more accel than stock. Until you get to 58 mph where you again have to shift (stock shifts at ~68mph). So, a 0-60 requires an added shift. And so on through the gears. You'll also be close to a shift to 5th in the quarter-mile. Bottom line, gearing is not fully a replacement for more power.
Also, highway cruise rpm will be 4.77/4.1=1.16x higher. 60mph is now ~3600 vs 3100 rpm.
Top speed? Little change. Like most cars, the S2000 is drag-limited not gear-limited. If you use a 4.77 however, you will be gear limited to about 148 @ 9000 rpm. Stock, if it can hit 150, that occurs at 7800 rpm. Somewhat below the peak power.
Driving the 4.44s in daily life is fun, sort of like rowing the boat. The 4.77s would be much more rowing the boat, probably more than I would want to.
The 4.33 don't exist....they are 4.30s
I'm considering the 4.30s again since the trap speed max in 4th with the 4.44s is about 108 mph or so and the 4.30s would give about 4 mph more to about 112 mph. Shifting in the traps never helps the results. I could go to taller tires that are designed for racing and probably get very similar results.
This is so much fun....the limiting factor is how much you want to spend (time and money.)
The 4.33 don't exist....they are 4.30s
I'm considering the 4.30s again since the trap speed max in 4th with the 4.44s is about 108 mph or so and the 4.30s would give about 4 mph more to about 112 mph. Shifting in the traps never helps the results. I could go to taller tires that are designed for racing and probably get very similar results.
This is so much fun....the limiting factor is how much you want to spend (time and money.)
Everything's that's been said so far has been quite reasonable except for the business about improving drag strip times accordingly by % gear reduction. Going from 4.10 to 4.44 is an increase of 8.3% mechanical advantage. 4.44 to 4.77 is another 7.77%. You will NOT improve drag time by these percentages. As already mentioned, you have to account for shifting times AND the addition shift required. Even if the gearing can save you 1/2 a second in the 1/4 mile, if it takes you an extra 1/2 second to do that extra shift, how will that translate in your time slip? Sure, you may not take a 1/2 sec. to do a shift (although it could for some people), but you get what I'm saying here.
Having driven with 4.44 gears for several weeks now, I can say that it is a remarkable improvement in driveability and "get up and go". Although it is quite cold out side now, even when the temps were still in the mid-teens (celcius), it was rediculously easy to spin the back tires on launch at relatively low revs (4000 - 4500 rpm) and it is rediculously easy to chirp the tires on a 1-2 shift even as low as 4000 rpm. I have no concerns about the rpms at highway speeds and I think even with 4.77 gears, highway would be "manageable". You would not be taxing the engine at all running a whole day in 6th gear on the highway. Unless you're speeding, you'll still be well under VTEC. And I think that 4.77 gears for city use would be an absolute blast. You would be surprised at how fast you could get across the intersection.
As for affecting top speed, with a relatively stock car, you would more likely actually achieve redline with the 4.44 and 4.77. Now, whether or not which gearing will allow the car to go the fastest is dependent upon the gearing being able to overcome the "drag". Overcoming the drag and using up all your available speed due to the gearing is a complex and delicate balance that can only be theorized by an aerodynamic engineer and can only be proven by actually doing it.
However, if your's is a highway car, you might tire of the slightly higher engine rpm (noise) and the decreased fuel economy.
I didn't put these gears in my car specifically because I drag race. I did it to give the car's powertrain a bit of a "break", an easier time of it, in daily driving. The clutch takes less of a beating, as does the tranny and the prop shaft. As already noted in another thread, aftermarket gear sets are generally made much stroner than the stock set so, in a way, this extra stength is somewhat comforting if you're always on the "gas". If drag racing and "getting off the line" is the main issue for you, one of these gear sets should be one of your FIRST considerations for mods.
Having driven with 4.44 gears for several weeks now, I can say that it is a remarkable improvement in driveability and "get up and go". Although it is quite cold out side now, even when the temps were still in the mid-teens (celcius), it was rediculously easy to spin the back tires on launch at relatively low revs (4000 - 4500 rpm) and it is rediculously easy to chirp the tires on a 1-2 shift even as low as 4000 rpm. I have no concerns about the rpms at highway speeds and I think even with 4.77 gears, highway would be "manageable". You would not be taxing the engine at all running a whole day in 6th gear on the highway. Unless you're speeding, you'll still be well under VTEC. And I think that 4.77 gears for city use would be an absolute blast. You would be surprised at how fast you could get across the intersection.
As for affecting top speed, with a relatively stock car, you would more likely actually achieve redline with the 4.44 and 4.77. Now, whether or not which gearing will allow the car to go the fastest is dependent upon the gearing being able to overcome the "drag". Overcoming the drag and using up all your available speed due to the gearing is a complex and delicate balance that can only be theorized by an aerodynamic engineer and can only be proven by actually doing it.
However, if your's is a highway car, you might tire of the slightly higher engine rpm (noise) and the decreased fuel economy.
I didn't put these gears in my car specifically because I drag race. I did it to give the car's powertrain a bit of a "break", an easier time of it, in daily driving. The clutch takes less of a beating, as does the tranny and the prop shaft. As already noted in another thread, aftermarket gear sets are generally made much stroner than the stock set so, in a way, this extra stength is somewhat comforting if you're always on the "gas". If drag racing and "getting off the line" is the main issue for you, one of these gear sets should be one of your FIRST considerations for mods.
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Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Las Olas and Brickell, FL
So from what I understand, the 4.77s are gonna give a better 0-60 and 1/4 mi time than the 4.44s? They are also better for auto-x courses. I fail to see where the cons are to 4.77s over 4.44s if you don't run on open tracks with lots of highspeed straights. Maybe we can start a pros and cons list? This is a really hard decision to make, but I feel it's a very important one. I personally do not mind the extra shifting, I like rowing the boat
Originally posted by xpander4
So from what I understand, the 4.77s are gonna give a better 0-60 and 1/4 mi time than the 4.44s?
So from what I understand, the 4.77s are gonna give a better 0-60 and 1/4 mi time than the 4.44s?
With 4.77 gears, this would be for sure that you'd need an extra shift to just get to 60. Even if you are "lightening" fast in your shift, you'd still be slower than if you didn't have to. But if you like "rowing" and aren't concerned about times, "Oh, what a feeling!"
I've posted the calculations before. With the 4.44:1 gears the car will just barely eek out a 0-60 blast with only 1-2 shift. Second at 9000rpm with 4.44's is 61 mph. If the real redline is lower, then you will need a second shift.
Just forget the time performance out the window and think about day to day driving including stop and go.
I don't see anyone not going to enjoy more of how your car accelerate off the line with final gears changed from stock configuration. You can mesh your throttle without revving and experience no bog unlike with stock.
This is so much satisfying than say doing intake, header and exaust all together.
Granted, this will not totally transform S2000 into torque monster but satisfying seat of the pants feeling will be something that you cannot deny.
Feeling to describe on my car after the final gear is like this:
It is S2000 no doubt but it feels like my car lost 500lb. After getting use to the first couple of test runs, I am like 'damn I love this!' There is reason why I can achieve really good times at 1/4 with just reving 2-3K rpm, it is not me because I am a good driver.
It is eager to rev and it gets to the powerband quicker.
I really recommend this route, if you do lots of day to day driving.
I don't see anyone not going to enjoy more of how your car accelerate off the line with final gears changed from stock configuration. You can mesh your throttle without revving and experience no bog unlike with stock.
This is so much satisfying than say doing intake, header and exaust all together.
Granted, this will not totally transform S2000 into torque monster but satisfying seat of the pants feeling will be something that you cannot deny.
Feeling to describe on my car after the final gear is like this:
It is S2000 no doubt but it feels like my car lost 500lb. After getting use to the first couple of test runs, I am like 'damn I love this!' There is reason why I can achieve really good times at 1/4 with just reving 2-3K rpm, it is not me because I am a good driver.
It is eager to rev and it gets to the powerband quicker.
I really recommend this route, if you do lots of day to day driving.







