Some of us who had the short block replaced have already exchanged contact information in case problems arise in the future. If anyone has had a short block replaced and wants to exchange contact information feel free to send a personal message.

 

Six sigma applies to manufacturing of individual characteristics or families of characteristics. Even if all characteristics are within one sigma (i.e. nominal) the system may not work at all, unless the engineering tolerances are correct. Remember CpK, the foundation of six sigma, is the relation between the process and the engineering design limits imposed. If the design limits are wrong, six sigma is useless (but it will point to design errors). I believe the problem is more akin to "infant mortality" in the electronics industry. Failures only propagate when the system is stressed (as in environmental stress screening of circuits). I would really love to get a set of blueprints of the castings and machined parts, with a known good and known bad block, and have at it. I do this kind of work daily in the aerospace industry, so I really am curious. My bet currently is what is know as a core shift of the casting. Anyone out there know if it's a sand casting or permanent mold?

 

Utah S2K:

You are correct - the most contoversial way to improve the CpK is to widen the tolerances. But, it seems as though these #4 cylinder failures are are model year 2001 (with 1 late model year 2000). This would indicate that something shifted in their process, whether or not it was still in the design tolerance.

Rick Hesel:

While there are several parts in the "system" of an engine, whatever seems to be the problem, results in mainly (if not only) the failure of the #4 piston/cylinder. While this could be caused by any number of things, it is most likely caused by 1 or 2 parts not being manufactured correctly, as model year 2000 cars seem to be free of this problem.

 

By looking at the VIN numbers can we determine when the cars were produced?? ie are the cars with failures temporally related? I was looking at my car and on the inside of the driver door it read that the production date was 11/00 yet it is a 2001?? I'm confused.

 

MY2001 production began in August, 2000. I'm pretty sure some MY2000 cars were also produced in August. My car was the 52nd of MY2001 produced for this market. Its production date was 23 August 2000.

Rowland, with the only MY2000, will get his month of production for us this week. His car is at the dealer's for the short block repair.

Barry

 

txst,

Thanks. I stand corrected. Hopefull this site will be the repository of data and information concerning this issue. Honda, are you watching?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rick Hesel
[B]txst,

Thanks.

 

Is anyone keeping track of VIN numbers of those with failures? It would be good data for Honda (so we know what they know) and I would like to know if my VIN is in the range of the other failures. Anyone want to post their VIN to get this started??

 

Correction Barry... the gal with 1200 miles was a Y2K model.

-Jason Saini

 

Good suggestion L. Cunningham, and thanks for the correction, Jason.

Unlike Click and Clack, I won't track color.


SUMMARY OF F20C piston/cylinder failure information.

(1) Jason Saini, VIN#? MY2001 Delivered? Failed 12/00 at 2,200 miles. confirmed #4 cylinder failure. had tapping sound.
(2) a gal Jason knows. VIN#? MY2000 Delivered? Failed? 1,200 miles at failure. Confirmed #4 cylinder failure. had tapping sound.
(3) Barry Wohl, VIN#JHMAP11491T000052.MY2001. Delivered 11/4/00. Failed 1/4/01 650 miles at failure. never low on oil. confirmed #4 cylinder failure. had tapping sound.
(4) AutoxEx, 2,800 miles at failure MY2001. made a loud noise and then failed. May be significantly different failure. Failed 2/01 did not have tapping sound noted.
(5) kizneda, MY2001.JHMAP114X1T000044 Delivered 11/00
Failed 2/01. 2,900 miles at failure. #4 cylinder not confirmed. made tapping sound like #4 cylinder failures did. had tapping sound.
(6) Rowland in New Hampshire MY2000 #8275 6,651 miles at failure. Manufactured 6/00. Delivered .. Failed 2/01. confirmed #4 cylinder. was not low on oil. had tapping sound.
(7) Elund, VIN#? MY2001. Delivered? Failed 2/01. 2,000 miles at failure. getting new short block. NOT confirmed #4 cylinder failure. had tapping sound.
(8) s2kfatty, VIN#5714 MY2000. Delivered? Failed 12/00 7231 miles. has tapping sound but may be normal. diagnosis pending.

Please post corrections/additions to this thread and I'll update as we go.

Barry Wohl Barry in Wyoming...



[Edited by Barry WY Silver/Black '01 on 02-19-2001 at 07:13 PM]