Thanks for the props guys. Fact of the matter is I don't liked to be f***ed with when it comes to my hard earned stuff AND because they made me drive a Taurus for 10 days!
In answer to your questions:
Jason emailed me a couple months ago in response to my post on Purehonda, re: engine failure. I don't know if I am "that gal" but we have talked,so to speak, several times. My car was 10 weeks old w/ 3,200 miles when she busted 2 days before Thanksgiving
I had a very subtle rattle like noise almost from day 1. The dealer told me it was probably the heat shield and that it would "settle in". It was so subtle that occasional passengers could'nt hear it. I would hear it mostly at very low rpm's like going thru parking lots where sound would bounce off buildings. It stayed the same until THE DAY when, all of a sudden, it sounded like a screw had been dropped into the running engine. It was nausea inducing sound I've never heard before and don't want to hear again!
FYI- my car was built in June, 2000, ordered in Aug. and delivered in Sept.
When I talk again w/ Honda later this week, you can be assured I will inform them of the possibly 8 other engine failures I've just been made aware of. I sure would like some assurance that, whatever the problem is, they've identified and fixed it.
Jason just turned me on to the happening in Asheville in April. That's a no-brainer for me, we are only 3 hours away. If you have not been there, it's beautiful and,in April...stunning.

 

Honda prides itself in saying it's a an engine company that builds cars. With 6 Formula One championships and 71 Grand Prix wins in nine years; plus, 3 CART championships and 53 CART wins in seven years - damn it, I believe them! Honda Performance Development, which currently supplies the CART engines, brags about recycling their engineers back into the production program. The S2000 is a show case car for Honda and Honda's reputation is on the line. It should not take this forum to identify and resolve this problem. If they are working on the problem - god speed. If they have resolved it - share it by sheading some light on it. If they think it will go away on it's own - they are wrong!

Lisa - congrat's! I just hope for Honda's sake, your replacement car is solid.

I do believe Honda's in for the long haul and they will continue to do what's right. Honda don't let me down!

 

Hi guys and girls,

I was not able to find anything specific on oil changes related to these defects, and therefor I am wondering if the special break-in oil has something to do with it...

According to my (limited) knowledge, Honda uses a special kind of compound in the first oil, to help the breaking in of the engine. Evidently, you are not supposed to change this before 3000 miles and preferably not before 6000 miles (or so I red somewhere).

Any info on which oil was in the sump when the damage occured?

Do we need to get rid of the 'special' oil asap, or do we really need to keep it in there longer? Can there be a compatibility problem when you top-off the 'special' oil with 'normal' oil causing clogging or something??

 

Hey all:

This is good information, and I hope we can build a complete list of VIN's.

What about the European production? Are they having similar rates of failure? Does anyone have a European connection to ask? Our list membership looks to me like a predominately U.S.A. clientele.

Lynn Cunningham
2001 Spa Yellow

 

Siepel, good questions. Several were low on oil, but, that may have been caused by the failure rather than being the cause of the failure. Most were below 5,000 miles, so it's hard to see believe any oil additive or lack of additive would have led to such a rapid failure. Remember, mine failed at 650 miles without being low on oil ever.

s2kLisa, I'm POSITIVE you are the other failure Jason Saini told me about. I've updated the list with your screen name, and moved you to second, since I'm ordering the list by date of failure.

Lisa, at this point when you talk to Honda, I'd say "seven others" since s2kfatty's problem still might be something more minor. We don't know yet if he'll need a short block replacement.

I am sure AHM knows about the failures. After all, the dealers have to order the short blocks from AHM. Also, I'm sure AHM follows what we say, even if they wish they didn't have to. Also, I'm sure, with such a huge organization, they can't be all of one mind as to how serious the problem is, how much resources to devote to fixing it, how much attention to pay to us, how exhaustive to be in informing their whole organization of it. I don't like it when someone from AHM tells our members, "No engines have failed unless the owners have abused them by letting them run out of oil or by racing or by modding or by improper break-in." That answer is pure B.S.

I'm sure it is NOT FAIR to say that AHM doesn't know a great deal about this problem. They know far more than we do. They know all the VINS, all the failure dates, all the design and manufacturing details, and they've even looked at some of the broken short blocks, I bet.

I agree with dlq04 that Honda is primarily an engine company that also builds cars and motorcycles to transport their engines.

AS a customer, as a VERY LOYAL HONDA customer (seven new cars and one new motorcycle since 1986) I want Honda to succeed.

I want exactly what Lisa said, "I sure would like some assurance that, whatever the problem is, they've identified and fixed it. "


UPDATED LIST:
SUMMARY OF F20C piston/cylinder failure information.
updated 2/21/01 0614 pst after txst's post below.

(1) Zoinks, VIN#7115 MY2000. Failed 10/00, odometer 7450. tapping sound led to short block replacement. "bearing failed" as diagnosis.
(2) s2klisa. VIN#? MY2000 Built 06/00 Delivered 09/00 Failed 11/00 two days before Thanksgiving. 3,200 miles at failure. Confirmed #4 cylinder failure. had tapping sound from very beginning. #4 cylinder wrist pin failed, Honda told Lisa.
(3) Jason Saini, VIN#? MY2001 Delivered? Failed 12/00 at 2,200 miles. confirmed #4 cylinder failure. had tapping sound.
(4) Barry Wohl, VIN#JHMAP11491T000052.MY2001. Delivered 11/4/00. Failed 1/4/01 650 miles at failure. never low on oil. confirmed #4 piston/cylinder failure. had tapping sound.
(5) AutoxEx, 2,800 miles at failure MY2001 VIN#1234. Had tapping sound and then made a loud noise and then failed. Failed 2/01. Diagnosis vague but likely piston/cylinder failure.
(6) kizneda, MY2001.JHMAP114X1T000044 Delivered 11/00
Failed 2/01. 2,900 miles at failure. #4 cylinder not confirmed. made tapping sound like #4 cylinder failures did.
(7) Rowland in New Hampshire MY2000 #8275 6,651 miles at failure. Manufactured 6/00. Delivered .. Failed 2/01. confirmed #4 cylinder. was not low on oil. had tapping sound.
(8) Elund, VIN#? MY2001. Delivered? Failed 2/01. 2,000 miles at failure. getting new short block. NOT confirmed #4 cylinder failure. had tapping sound.
(9) s2kfatty, VIN#5714 MY2000. Delivered? Failed 12/00 7231 miles. has tapping sound but may be normal. diagnosis pending.

Barry in Wyoming '01 #52


[Edited by Barry WY Silver/Black '01 on 02-21-2001 at 06:14 AM]

 

Barry:

As a soon-to-be owner of an S2K that was built on 2/16/01, I have been very interested in the information that you have been compiling - thanks, and keep it up.

Just a couple of comments:
1) You may want to add AutoEx's VIN number - from his signature, it looks like #1234.
2) What would be really interesting (though difficult to find out) is the casting numbers on the blocks. I am sure that AHM has this info.

 

Lisa, fantastic! As for this break in oil nonsense. Get off of it. I was a Porsche/Volkswagen mechanic for ten years, and had numerous factory classes. I have a BS in Industry and Technology with a major in Automotive Engineering Technology, and I've never heard of break in oil! They may use Molly when assembling the engine but that doesn't translate into break in oil. I will change my oil to Mobil 1 at approximately 1000 miles, and continue to change my oil every 2000 to 3000 miles after that. Conventional motor oils lose one half their viscosity at 260 degrees F. How hot do you think lube oil gets with continual 9000 RPM redlines? These cars should be using synthetic motor oils period! Most, if not all of these failures were caused by manufacturing defects. Just like Lisa, if I lose my engine, Honda will be sorry they ever met me.

 

Barry:
Sorry for my comment #1 - I didn't see that you had AutoEx's VIN # already posted.

s2klisa:
I give you credit for what you did. Glad you are satified with the results.

With the attention that this subject is getting here, and the number of engine blocks that are available for analysis, hopefully AHM knows or soon will know the root cause of these failures.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wtromb
[B]Lisa, fantastic! As for this break in oil nonsense. Get off of it. I was a Porsche/Volkswagen mechanic for ten years, and had numerous factory classes. I have a BS in Industry and Technology with a major in Automotive Engineering Technology, and I've never heard of

 

Thanks 2x6spds, I have 620 miles and I intend on changing my oil to Mobil 1 at 1000 miles. I will let you Know if it effects VTEC.

MY2001 Silver/Black
MY1986 911 Cab