If not, have a friend safely show you in his or her car. Hell, I'll show you.

 

where is this corner you speak of that u are trying to pull this maneuver?

 

I think you're right!

https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.ph...ic=237209&st=0

 

okay okay.
I always rev-match without skipping gears.
and occasionally do double-clutch if it requires skpping gears in relaxed sprint turns.

BUT(!) When I'm at the track(very nervous), after long straight before the turn, I just brake hard then clutch in, heel-toe then shift to 3rd gear (from 5th gear, shifting happens when car is slowing to around 50mph).

So, Since I'm not doing double clutching and skpping gear w/ rev-match, it's not good for the syn??

 

Dyhppy, let me make a couple suggestions. I think they'll help you out and they may save you some grief.

1) Listen to XViper. Re-read everything he's said in both your threads until you understand exactly what he's saying. If anything isn't crystal clear, post in the same thread and as XV to clarify.

2) Even more importantly, and I think this is CRITICAL, forget about shifting when cornering for a little while, and learn to do this stuff in a straight line. If you blow a shift when going in a straight line you are far less likely to lose control than if you blow a shift while cornering. In this area we have several public parking lots where people take their kids to teach them to drive, and that would be a good place to practice, but any big parking lot or deserted back road will do. You don't have to go fast to practice shifting techniques. The lower gears are the hardest to get right, so practice 1-2 up/down shifting techniques, in a straight line, until you are certain that you can do them smoothly enough to avoid upsetting the car when you do the same things during cornering.

I have some more suggestions, but number two above is so critical that I'm going to save the rest for another post.

 

Dyhppy, we need to take one thing at a time, so as suggested above, you need to master shifting alone before you tackle shifting during cornering. When I teach someone to drive a stick I generally use our Miata, because it's extremely easy to drive, but the same exercises will work in the S2000; They'll just be a little harder at first. Almost anyone can learn to be comfortable with a manual transmission if they take things one step at a time. Here's what we'd do if you were here and I were giving you personal instruction ...

1) The first skill that must be mastered is getting the car underway smoothly. This is a skill that you can practice every time you drive, but a little practice in an empty parking lot is the quickest way to get it down pat. Try the following exercise:

------ Start with the car fully warmed up, stopped, and in neutral with the clutch out. Fully depress the clutch pedal, and pull the shifter into SECOND gear. Notice how much effort is required. With the clutch still fully depressed, shift out of second gear into first, and notice how much effort is required. Now, pull the shifter back into neutral, and release the clutch. As before, fully depress the clutch pedal and shift directly into first. Notice the effort required. You will see that it takes more effort to shift into first directly than it does to shift into first after shifting into second. This may seem a little silly, but you should do it anyway, because it shows how the synchros feel when they're working hard, and how they feel when they have it easy. You also need to understand WHY it is easier to shift into first after shifting into second. Here's what's happening ...

When you are stopped with in neutral with the clutch out, the engine is connected to the transmission, so the transmission's input shaft is turning at crankshaft speed. At the same time, the output shaft of the transmission, which is connected to the stopped rear wheels, is not turning at all. In order to engage a gear smoothly, the speeds of the input and output shafts have to be equal (or very close to equal), and since we are stopped, this means that we have to stop the input shaft from turning. To do this, we have to disconnect the transmission from the crankshaft, which is what we do when we depress the clutch. However, even after we depress the clutch, the input shaft is still spinning, due to inertia. As we push the shifter into gear, the synchros go to work matching the input and output shaft speeds, and you feel their action as resistance in the shifter. If you push the shifter hard enough to override the resistance prematurely, you'll grind the gears. When you shift into first, the first gear synchros do the work, and the shifter offers a lot of resistance. If you shift into second before shifting into first, the second gear synchros stop the input shaft, so when you then shift into first, the synchros don't offer almost no resistance and the car slides easily into first.

HINT: On a cold start, try shifting into third, then first, before moving off for the first time. The higher the gear you use to stop the input shaft, the less effort it takes.

While the above is VERY basic, it is important to understand it and actually try it before moving on to the next exercise. Remember that when stopped, IF you let the clutch out, shifting into second then first is easier than shifting directly into first.

Explaining all this is a lot easier in person ... this is actually pretty hard, so I'm gong to break here and go to the next exercise in another post (to follow shortly).

 

2) The next thing to work on is the launch itself. Come to a dead stop, and then start off again; Accelerate away from the stop smoothly. The car should not buck or jerk. If you can't get this right 99.9% of the time you need to practice until you can. If it's something you do every day, do the exercise at least once, just to humor me.

3) Once we can launch smoothly, we want to lean to depress the clutch without upsetting the car. Repeat the previous exercise, but this time, as soon as you are rolling, push the clutch back in, apply the brakes, and come to a smooth stop. The idea here is to release pressure on the throttle at the same time you release the clutch. If you release pressure on the throttle too soon, the car will decelerate from compression breaking. If you release the clutch too soon, the engine will rev a little as the clutch releases, and you'll feel the weight of the car shift from the too-sudden drop in acceleration. When the clutch/throttle are coordinated properly and the launch is smooth you will be stopping, accelerating smoothly, depressing the clutch without upsetting the car (at all), and stopping smoothly. Keep the speeds during these early exercises LOW. All we're doing here is starting off and stopping again and trying to do it with silky smoothness.

Having mastered the basic launch and stop, we can move on to actually shifting gears. I know the first exercises were extremely basic, but I strongly encourage you to have them mastered before moving on, as it will make what follows much easier.

---- Now we want to repeat the same exercise we did above (#3), but this time we want to accelerate to about 4500 RPM (make sure you have plenty of room), and then shift into second.

1) Before we shift gears I want you to see what happens when the driveline is "unloaded." Do this exercise on a deserted road where you can safely drive at a moderate speed in fourth gear. Accelerate briskly (still in fourth) and push GENTLY on the shift lever (toward neutral). As you apply a little pressure to the shift lever, gradually reduce pressure on the throttle, until you start to decelerate. BE READY!! As the car transitions from accelerating to decelerating there will be a moment during which it will be doing neither, and the driveline will "unload." When this happens, the shifter will pop right into neutral, and you DO NOT want to continue the shift into third, because THE CLUTCH IS NOT DEPRESSED and you WILL grind gears. The idea here is to see and feel how the transmission will pop out of gear easily when the driveline unloads. BE CAREFUL WHEN YOU DO THIS! I'd feel better if I could show you before you try it, and if possible I suggest you get somebody to coach you in person if possible.

2) Now we're going back to our parking lot, and learn to shift into second. We'll repeat exercise #3 above, but after depressing the clutch we're going to shift gears. As you depress the clutch and release the throttle in a coordinated manner, just as if you were going to stop, you will apply rearward pressure on the shifter. A little pressure on the shifter combined with the drivenline unloading and the clutch being released (all three will be happening at the same time) will disengage first, and you will continue a light pull toward second gear. You will feel a little resistance at first, as they synchros work, and as the engine speed falls, it will reach a point where the crankshaft speed matches second gear speed, and the resistance to your shift will drip to nearly zero, and the car will be in second gear. Now all you have to do is release the clutch smoothly (but quickly) AS you reapply the throttle. The throttle should be sufficient to prevent deceleration as you let out the clutch, but not so much as to result in excessive forward acceleration. As with stopping, you need to practice this until you can shift with minimal accel/decel/weight-shift.

Don't worry about downshifting until you can upshift smoothly.

I'll offer some downshifting exercise suggestions in the next installment.

(Sorry this is so long.)

 

If you can master the 2-1 downshift, the rest will be easy. Back to our parking lot.

----- Accelerate and shift into second, then keep a constant speed for a few moments; Then downshift. Execute the downshift as follows:

1) Depress the clutch as you release the throttle, as if you were doing our first gear stopping practice. A good shift always starts with a smooth clutch disengagement. AFTER the clutch is fully depressed, pull the shifter into neutral, release the clutch, and rev the motor the ABOUT the same RPM you think it will be turning after you release the clutch. It is not necessary to get it exactly right, because the synchros will make up for a certain amount of error, but the closer you rev match, the less work the synchros will have to do. Anyway, rev the motor with the clutch out, then depress the clutch fully and shift (gently) into first. DO NOT FORCE the shift. If the car does not shift into first easily you did not get the rev match close enough, so just go back into neutral, clutch out, and try for a better match. If you miss it a couple times in a row just stop, and start the whole exercise over again. What you are doing is called double clutching, and you want to learn to do it alone before combining it with braking or turning. Finally, after you have the shifter in first gear, and the clutch STILL all the way to the floor, rev the engine again, to ABOUT what it will be running after you let out the clutch, and then SMOOTHLY release the clutch. This part is the "rev match." Practice it until you can downshift with low effort and release the clutch quickly with a good rev match and minimal weight transfer.

Once you can do 1-2 and 2-1 shifts smoothly the other gears will be trivial. When you can up/down shift smoothly to/from any gear, at any speed, then you'll be ready to start working on doing it all while you are braking or turning.

OH, one more thing. Start with lower RPM shifts; When you downshift, make sure the speed is low enough to keep revs below 4,500 RPM's after the shift. Once you can handle that, move the shift point upward a little at a time. Things get more critical as revs climb, so start easy and work your way up.

I sure hope all this drivel helps SOMEBODY, 'cause it was a bitch to write it all.

 

wow. i really thank you for your fervor and effort, but it must be my fault that i came off as a village idiot. i've been driving manual for 9 years. i simply had a question about what people do at a sharp right turn without stopping. as far as i read and reread, xvpr said, brake, clutch in shift to 3rd, shif to 2nd, rev match, gas. if this matches what everyone else thinks, just say so. or please continue writing the dummies guide to manual. i'll read it.

honestly, mx5, i DO appreciate your help. especially since you're the one i owe knowing the RP shifter to.

i dont get why some of you have turned this into a big deal and tried to flame me a bit when it's apparent that many people have questions of a similar sort.

let's try again. IF YOU ARE APPROACHING A SHARP RIGHT TURN AT 40 MPH, WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU DO TO GET AROUND THE CORNER?

thankx

 

well i suppose you would turn??

honestly since your just starting out, put the clutch in, and just roll around the corner, and put the car in third and rev match after the corner. you may need to drop down to second depending on your speed, 3rd may be to high. do this for a while till you get a hang on rev matching in a straight line. the last thing you want to do at this point is rev match mid corner and lock the tire and spin out into harmless children on the street corner.