Any interest in a high quality hardtop?
05-19-2023, 05:21 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Any interest in a high quality hardtop?
As you likely know, buying a factory hardtop in North America is expensive. I ended up buying 2 and the third one came with the car.
If there is a new option for a carbon fiber factory style hardtop with new hardware and great fitment like factory, what are important factors that would get you to buy one?
If there’s interest and alignment, I might explore what’s possible.
Quality materials, 100% made in USA, lighter than factory, great fitment. I see these as must haves.
Price would likely be high. How important is shipping and paint?
Or would you say owners willing to pay a premium already have hardtops?
Looking forward to your feedback!
If there is a new option for a carbon fiber factory style hardtop with new hardware and great fitment like factory, what are important factors that would get you to buy one?
If there’s interest and alignment, I might explore what’s possible.
Quality materials, 100% made in USA, lighter than factory, great fitment. I see these as must haves.
Price would likely be high. How important is shipping and paint?
Or would you say owners willing to pay a premium already have hardtops?
Looking forward to your feedback!
05-19-2023, 07:00 PM
#2
Pay a premium over what? OEM tops are 5-6k with hardware included right now. I think you need to have a price point lower than that. Everyone who still doesn't have a hardtop typically wants OEM quality but doesn't want to pay $5k for it. Many are the same people that didn't want to pay $3.5k 5 years ago.
Shipping is definitely necessary or you're limited to a few hours of wherever you're having them made. I don't think you need to offer paint options but a nice clear coat would be good. Offering paint would introduce a lot of issues for QC like when a customer complains the NFR you shipped doesn't perfectly match their 20 y/o car. Paint work is better done at the local level. Idk much about carbon finishes though and I'm not sure if bare or clear coated is the expectation/norm.
Overall, the only tops that people seem to consider consistently high quality/fit is OEM and Mugen. All others have had some complaints. Others are available in OEM style, carbon finished too so you'd need to outcompete them in quality and/or price.
Will you use Honda glass? Defrosted? Will it fit the interior pieces and where would you source them?
I'd love for there to be a cheaper option but I think there's a reason why they're not available yet. I'm guessing that we're getting close to the tipping point where OEM are worth so much that someone can finally enter the market but idk if we're there yet. I've been complaining for years that they're too expensive before just sucking it up and buying one last year at market value.
Shipping is definitely necessary or you're limited to a few hours of wherever you're having them made. I don't think you need to offer paint options but a nice clear coat would be good. Offering paint would introduce a lot of issues for QC like when a customer complains the NFR you shipped doesn't perfectly match their 20 y/o car. Paint work is better done at the local level. Idk much about carbon finishes though and I'm not sure if bare or clear coated is the expectation/norm.
Overall, the only tops that people seem to consider consistently high quality/fit is OEM and Mugen. All others have had some complaints. Others are available in OEM style, carbon finished too so you'd need to outcompete them in quality and/or price.
Will you use Honda glass? Defrosted? Will it fit the interior pieces and where would you source them?
I'd love for there to be a cheaper option but I think there's a reason why they're not available yet. I'm guessing that we're getting close to the tipping point where OEM are worth so much that someone can finally enter the market but idk if we're there yet. I've been complaining for years that they're too expensive before just sucking it up and buying one last year at market value.
Last edited by Jub; 05-19-2023 at 07:05 PM.
05-20-2023, 06:57 AM
#3
Registered User
Thread Starter
Pay a premium over what? OEM tops are 5-6k with hardware included right now. I think you need to have a price point lower than that. Everyone who still doesn't have a hardtop typically wants OEM quality but doesn't want to pay $5k for it. Many are the same people that didn't want to pay $3.5k 5 years ago.
Shipping is definitely necessary or you're limited to a few hours of wherever you're having them made. I don't think you need to offer paint options but a nice clear coat would be good. Offering paint would introduce a lot of issues for QC like when a customer complains the NFR you shipped doesn't perfectly match their 20 y/o car. Paint work is better done at the local level. Idk much about carbon finishes though and I'm not sure if bare or clear coated is the expectation/norm.
Overall, the only tops that people seem to consider consistently high quality/fit is OEM and Mugen. All others have had some complaints. Others are available in OEM style, carbon finished too so you'd need to outcompete them in quality and/or price.
Will you use Honda glass? Defrosted? Will it fit the interior pieces and where would you source them?
I'd love for there to be a cheaper option but I think there's a reason why they're not available yet. I'm guessing that we're getting close to the tipping point where OEM are worth so much that someone can finally enter the market but idk if we're there yet. I've been complaining for years that they're too expensive before just sucking it up and buying one last year at market value.
Shipping is definitely necessary or you're limited to a few hours of wherever you're having them made. I don't think you need to offer paint options but a nice clear coat would be good. Offering paint would introduce a lot of issues for QC like when a customer complains the NFR you shipped doesn't perfectly match their 20 y/o car. Paint work is better done at the local level. Idk much about carbon finishes though and I'm not sure if bare or clear coated is the expectation/norm.
Overall, the only tops that people seem to consider consistently high quality/fit is OEM and Mugen. All others have had some complaints. Others are available in OEM style, carbon finished too so you'd need to outcompete them in quality and/or price.
Will you use Honda glass? Defrosted? Will it fit the interior pieces and where would you source them?
I'd love for there to be a cheaper option but I think there's a reason why they're not available yet. I'm guessing that we're getting close to the tipping point where OEM are worth so much that someone can finally enter the market but idk if we're there yet. I've been complaining for years that they're too expensive before just sucking it up and buying one last year at market value.
By premium, I meant higher price than factory ones. Since I would want to target higher quality and lighter weight. But I realize that would be a very significant percentage of the cost of the car. Maybe the prices of the cars have to double to support such a thing.
I have not looked at. Is the Honda glass still available? If it is, that’s likely the best route. But like many other parts, maybe it’s no longer available?
05-20-2023, 06:44 PM
#4
What would be higher quality? Without an interior and nice finishings, I think that might be a hard sell. I do know that most of the interior parts are discontinued. Lighter weight kinda matters but I don't think most people are that much of weenies about it. The ones that are don't usually care about creaks and rattles and would be happy getting the cheapest POS they can gut.
Idk about the Honda glass. I think it'd be great to have another player enter selling OEM equivalent tops and undercutting market value. I'm just not sure what $$ the OEM tops have to hit for the quality to be there and undercut them.
Idk about the Honda glass. I think it'd be great to have another player enter selling OEM equivalent tops and undercutting market value. I'm just not sure what $$ the OEM tops have to hit for the quality to be there and undercut them.
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nocturne (06-21-2023)
05-21-2023, 03:18 AM
#5
Not a question of if I'd buy one -- I wouldn't -- but more of "would I invest in this project" with all it's startup, production, and marketing costs. Is there any demand for a hardtop? Turn a convertible into a coupe? Hasn't been one -- ever! Hardtop for the S2000 is a definite niche item for a niche car that no one bought when the cars were new hence the scarcity of OEM hardtops in today's market and the existing aftermarket roofs fill the demand that's left.
-- Chuck
-- Chuck
05-21-2023, 05:24 PM
#6
^Disagree. There is a market for them, clearly. This is not the first post this year about bringing more hardtops to the market because multiple people have concluded that the current offerings don't suit their need.
The issue is that current aftermarket tops aren't meeting market demand (Spoiler, it's quality issues, go look at the other thread). The question is: Given the current aftermarket tops aren't meeting market demand, is there a way to meet the quality people desire at a price point they'd actually pay instead of buying the OEM top? The more the OEM tops go up in value, the more viable quality alternatives become. I'm not sure we've hit that tipping point yet but clearly the current aftermarket offerings are not filling the leftover demand.
The issue is that current aftermarket tops aren't meeting market demand (Spoiler, it's quality issues, go look at the other thread). The question is: Given the current aftermarket tops aren't meeting market demand, is there a way to meet the quality people desire at a price point they'd actually pay instead of buying the OEM top? The more the OEM tops go up in value, the more viable quality alternatives become. I'm not sure we've hit that tipping point yet but clearly the current aftermarket offerings are not filling the leftover demand.
05-22-2023, 04:32 AM
#7
Positive responses to this thread will provide an indicator of demand which I fear won't be enough to generate an additional aftermarket roof demand for the tiny S2000 market especially if it's more expensive than the current tops. Current quality appears to meet demand and current manufacturers don't see a market or they'd be available now. If you can hit the eBay price point of the Miata hard tops ($350 - $1,200) there may be a market. 
In effect the eBay Miata roof market indicates low demand for hard tops on another roadster.
The laws of supply and demand will be at work and in this case there is currently statistically No supply and No demand.
Seems like a good study project for a business college marketing course but as I typed this I got visions of Rodney Dangerfield.
-- Chuck
In effect the eBay Miata roof market indicates low demand for hard tops on another roadster.The laws of supply and demand will be at work and in this case there is currently statistically No supply and No demand.
Seems like a good study project for a business college marketing course but as I typed this I got visions of Rodney Dangerfield.
-- Chuck
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05-22-2023, 06:44 AM
#9
And that is called an anecdote and projecting your views on others. I don't want a hardtop, therefore few owners do.
I do think you're right that the demand is limited but it does exist. If there were an OEM equivalent for <$4k right now, there is certainly demand. I also agree that if your profit margin is $300 per top and you sell 20 of them in a year, it's probably not worth the time and initial investment to get it up and running. That's a different problem than a lack of demand. I agree that there is virtually no demand for a "premium" top that exceeds the cost of an OEM top, especially one lacking a Mugen or Spoon label of authenticity.
I do think you're right that the demand is limited but it does exist. If there were an OEM equivalent for <$4k right now, there is certainly demand. I also agree that if your profit margin is $300 per top and you sell 20 of them in a year, it's probably not worth the time and initial investment to get it up and running. That's a different problem than a lack of demand. I agree that there is virtually no demand for a "premium" top that exceeds the cost of an OEM top, especially one lacking a Mugen or Spoon label of authenticity.
Last edited by Jub; 05-22-2023 at 07:56 AM.
05-22-2023, 07:41 AM
#10
As far as current quality meeting demand for those that want one, read the thread about the "Vaikhari" top. There is no quality alternative to OEM. Jub is 100% correct. Too many people that want, and not enough people that want to pay. This is why no one has done what OP is suggesting.
I'm sure the "I bought a convertible not a coupe" crowd will show up shortly.