Car Analogy

In us ap2 also got revised rear control arms.

When people hear the term 'suspension' they often think it refers to shocks and springs or coilovers. This is really a misuse of the term, that has nonetheless gained wide use.

Suspension means any/all the parts, control arms, bushings, shocks, balljoints, etc. The spring rates and shocks changed eveey two years in us. The suspension only changed once, in '04.

Topless-S2K

Thank for your post, very helpfull

herap1

Thanks for sharing all this info, I had no idea either.

Saki GT

Its really wrong to call the change a face lift - hundreds of changes were made across the car beyond the engine update. If you look at an S2000 produced for 2003 vs 2004, no matter your location, you will see subtle and not-so subtle differences from stem to stern, not to mention the electronics algorithms etc that you can't see. Honda can state what it wants, but anyone can look at the way the two cars are built and easily tell that AP1 vs AP2 is about more than the powerplant.

This car was Shigeru Uehara's pet project and we saw engineering as well as cosmetic tweaks throughout its lifecycle, on average every 24 months. I'd say his team never quit working to improve it or try different things.

If I was in UK, I'd assume that 'AP2' simply means 'updated S2000' vs the original version, so pre or post 2004. In reality, every two years saw a slightly different S2000 - 00-01, 02-03, 04-05, 06-07, and 08-09 and the CR/Type S.

s2ka

Probably easier to say the rear suspension *geometry* only changed once, 2004. The shocks/springs/swaybars changed every 2 years. And there were a few updates like reinforced upper control arm mounts after the early cars showed signs of cracking from track use, stiffer rear chassis brace & front brace for CR, etc.

Topless-S2K

Thanks Saki GT So with so many "face lift's" it leaves a problem in describing what model you are talking about, other than saying it's an e.g.; 06 fly by wire etc.

Mike RT4

As has been said, AP1 refers ONLY to the engine. All UK cars (and those fitted with the F20C engine worldwide) have the AP1 VIN code irrespective of model year and so in truth are AP1s.

The confusion stems from the fact that at the same time as the 2004 facelift, the US cars received the AP2 designation code relating to the F22 engine. Because S2000s in the US then only ever got this engine from 2004 onwards (with the F20C being discontinued), ALL facelifted cars tend to get referred to as the AP2, as that is what our US cousins refer to as the face-lift cars (as that is all they got from that point onwards). It then got confused across the pond with all face-lift cars being attributed as AP2s (perhaps the US peeps not realising in the early days that not everyone had the F22 engines from 2004 onwards).

The engine (DBW, VSA etc), suspension and wheel revisions were still phased in throughout the world across all engine types at the same year point and the Japanese market even received the AP2 engine in the last few years of production.

Unfortunately the above will not stop people from referring to all facelifts as AP2s, as they believe that is / should be the facelift designation and not the engine designation (which is what it really is).

It is probably best to refer to model year and designatory code to get an exact idea of car.

For example, mine is a a MY2005 AP1, which means it is a facelift (post 2004), throttle cable (pre-2006) F20C (AP1) car with the V1 17" wheels, where a MY2006 AP1 would be a facelift (post 2004), DBW (post 2006) F20C (AP1) car with V2 17" wheels.
A MY2005 AP2 would mean it is a facelift (post 2004), throttle cable (pre 2006) F22C (AP2) car with the V1 17" wheels etc etc. As long as you know the model year and the engine designation, you should easily be able to identify the precise model.

Saki GT

Fwiw, I've never seen Honda itself state that AP1 = engine. APx is the chassis and the classic definition of such is more than a powerplant. Not sure where that is coming from.. Maybe it's a British thing?

My personal theory is that if Honda wanted to re-classify the chassis in Europe, it would have had to spend money on a new round of crashworthiness and recertification, so it just kept the original designation because it was easier for it, not for us to later divine the differences. Perhaps it had to do such a thing in NA, but not elsewhere, so it limited costs this way.

Also, again, 2004 was not just a facelift - hundreds of additional changes were made beyond cosmetics.

It would be interesting to hear from more of the Europe folks about this.

Saki GT

Really, once you know the model year, you can piece together what you'd expect. Buying an 00? Don't expect separate tweeter speakers or a glass backlight. Buying an 06? Expect stability control and dbw. Etc.. The differences are more granular than pre or post 2004. To really know what to expect, you have to know what was specific to the year, but most people seem to care about the engine over other things.

GSteg

In the automotive world, the term "facelift" isn't limited to just cosmetics. It applies to cosmetic and/or mechanical changes that's significant enough, but not so significant that it changes the car entirely.