For the Audiophiles : upgrading the Stook's stereo for competition
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From: Bay Area
It maybe just an upgrade for just really , REALLY good enjoyment too! 
Let me first state that I'm not an expert or pretend to be. Although I have had extensive time in IASCA sound-offs, and tinkered around with enough setups to last me a life-time, I still don't pretend to be a pro at this. Each person's ear is a tuned to their specific likings, so YMMV.
However, I would like to try to state my assessment of the Stooks capabilities / shortcomings, and try to make recommendations for them.
- Stock-wise, the speaker and head unit puts out a lot of mid-bass which is pretty impressive. However there's a lot of clipping / distortion at higher volume levels, especially when trying to "bump" with the top down (don't do it!). The highs are typical stock automotive quality..very blaring, no specific frequencies or direction. Bass, well..these are what 5.25" speakers or so?! Note: One thing that perturbs me more than anything else is the vicinity of the speakers to my legs. I find that if I'm trying to rest my left leg (in a US spec car), there goes my left side sound and balance is shot. Imaging wise, the small size of the cabin helps compensate and reflect off noise, but it definitely could use help.
- Upgrades (I have not done it, so others may jump in here PLEASE). I would first correct the front distortion and tweaters. A decent 6.5" component in place of the stocks placated with some high frequency filtered tweaters mounted directionally at the listeners would do wonders. Of course, you should probably get a decent amp to power these puppies, as I suspect the stock head unit isn't up to the task of it. I would advise and suggest to all that they may want to try to mount the separates in a custom kickpanel enclosure. This way, more sound is directed to the listener, and it may rid of that annoying balance muting of the stock placement. I looked at it kick panel, and although you may lose the spare foot rest (I never use it anyways..this is a 6-speed sports car), it would probably be well worth it. Now for those going for the "imaging" aspect and need that rear speaker, I took a look at the space available and came up with two ideas: 1) you can use some of the space where the top stores in, which should provide ample sound with top up. With the top down, plan on listening from the front only! 2) to the side of the each of the drivers/passenger seat, there seems to be sufficient room to mount a 4" or so coaxial or seperates. You don't need much of a speaker in the rear since its only providing a limited frequency range for ambiance, and may even be turned down, because of the proximity to the listener themselves. I wouldn't recommend a center channel yet, unless you're dead serious about your sound and am thinking about entering into some competitions. As for the bass, this topic is very subjective into the type of enclosure (depending on your bass tastes), but I would reckon a simple bass tube or an isobaric setup (going to require a lot of power, but perfect for small size).
That's just i would do after about a month of owning the Stook and a good lunch hours worth at staring at what can be done with the space available. I'd love to hear real stories of what other people have done, and how it turned out, especially if they're serious audiophiles.
Let me first state that I'm not an expert or pretend to be. Although I have had extensive time in IASCA sound-offs, and tinkered around with enough setups to last me a life-time, I still don't pretend to be a pro at this. Each person's ear is a tuned to their specific likings, so YMMV.
However, I would like to try to state my assessment of the Stooks capabilities / shortcomings, and try to make recommendations for them.
- Stock-wise, the speaker and head unit puts out a lot of mid-bass which is pretty impressive. However there's a lot of clipping / distortion at higher volume levels, especially when trying to "bump" with the top down (don't do it!). The highs are typical stock automotive quality..very blaring, no specific frequencies or direction. Bass, well..these are what 5.25" speakers or so?! Note: One thing that perturbs me more than anything else is the vicinity of the speakers to my legs. I find that if I'm trying to rest my left leg (in a US spec car), there goes my left side sound and balance is shot. Imaging wise, the small size of the cabin helps compensate and reflect off noise, but it definitely could use help.
- Upgrades (I have not done it, so others may jump in here PLEASE). I would first correct the front distortion and tweaters. A decent 6.5" component in place of the stocks placated with some high frequency filtered tweaters mounted directionally at the listeners would do wonders. Of course, you should probably get a decent amp to power these puppies, as I suspect the stock head unit isn't up to the task of it. I would advise and suggest to all that they may want to try to mount the separates in a custom kickpanel enclosure. This way, more sound is directed to the listener, and it may rid of that annoying balance muting of the stock placement. I looked at it kick panel, and although you may lose the spare foot rest (I never use it anyways..this is a 6-speed sports car), it would probably be well worth it. Now for those going for the "imaging" aspect and need that rear speaker, I took a look at the space available and came up with two ideas: 1) you can use some of the space where the top stores in, which should provide ample sound with top up. With the top down, plan on listening from the front only! 2) to the side of the each of the drivers/passenger seat, there seems to be sufficient room to mount a 4" or so coaxial or seperates. You don't need much of a speaker in the rear since its only providing a limited frequency range for ambiance, and may even be turned down, because of the proximity to the listener themselves. I wouldn't recommend a center channel yet, unless you're dead serious about your sound and am thinking about entering into some competitions. As for the bass, this topic is very subjective into the type of enclosure (depending on your bass tastes), but I would reckon a simple bass tube or an isobaric setup (going to require a lot of power, but perfect for small size).
That's just i would do after about a month of owning the Stook and a good lunch hours worth at staring at what can be done with the space available. I'd love to hear real stories of what other people have done, and how it turned out, especially if they're serious audiophiles.
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From: Jackson
Well, i replaced the stock head unit with a JVC model and put in a JVC amp to the left of the spare tire. I have a TFT display mounted on the dash and a minitower AT computer in the trunk that plays MP3s. I'm planning to put an 8" or 10" speaker in the trunk later. I replaced the stock 6.5" with 6.5" clarion's. It helps out, but I really need the sub and use the amp crossovers.
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From: San Diego
At last, the thread I've been waiting for! Sorry this is such a novel, but the following was quite a bit of work:
On day 2 of owning my S2000 I took it to a highly recommended local install shop. They claimed to have done one of the first stooks in CA. I talked to the installer, and he said for that car they went with 6.5's in the doors and 5.25's in the kicks, but that he was not very pleased with the end result. He said that to get into the kick panels, they had to hack into some metal, and that even then it cut down on foot room too much. For me, the metal hacking was instant disqualification. His recommendation was a pair of high quality separates in the doors, with a full dynamat/custom clay enclosure job. I agreed and ended up going with a set of Focal Utopia 165W's, but did the install myself, which I had planned anyway. Hardest parts were the complete rewiring (stock wiring is 22ga), and getting the 3" deep speakers to fit.
For reference, there's about 2" between the outside mounting plane of the door metal to the window (or more specifically, the white roller thing on the window), and another 1.25-1.5" from that plane to the inside back of the door panel. I punched the door panel's grill holes through with a drill, and mounted the tweeter behind the panel - you have to look at the speakers straight-on to notice they're even there. Not the best thing for imaging; more in line with my goal of retaining the factory appearance.
For amplification I went what I've had good experience with, Rockford Fosgate, and their 800a4 (100x4 RMS into 4 ohms). It sits where the spare tire goes (err, went), with quick disconnects. I have a separate little loop-through connector so I can power the speakers off the head unit when the amp and subs are removed on autocross days, or if I want the spare in for a long trip. Right now I have two 8" JL Audio subs in a box I custom built to fit in the spare tire well of my last car, a Porsche 944. It fits ok in the stook, but I ought to eventually do another custom box to better utilize the space.
Never even considered a normal rear speaker. After tearing the interior apart, decided there wouldn't be enough room for what I wanted to use, a Focal 5WS (mini subwoofer). You may have better luck with some shallower coaxials.
The head unit is stock for now, and will continue to be until a fully wired solution presents itself. Right now the best prospect is empeg's new unit (http://www.empeg.com), with some homemade electronics to convert the varying resistances of the dash controls (which I absolutely will not sacrifice), to some sort of input on the device's serial port. It runs Linux for crying out loud!
I'll try to get some pics together and up on my website in the next week or so. Happy jammin' everyone!
Jason
On day 2 of owning my S2000 I took it to a highly recommended local install shop. They claimed to have done one of the first stooks in CA. I talked to the installer, and he said for that car they went with 6.5's in the doors and 5.25's in the kicks, but that he was not very pleased with the end result. He said that to get into the kick panels, they had to hack into some metal, and that even then it cut down on foot room too much. For me, the metal hacking was instant disqualification. His recommendation was a pair of high quality separates in the doors, with a full dynamat/custom clay enclosure job. I agreed and ended up going with a set of Focal Utopia 165W's, but did the install myself, which I had planned anyway. Hardest parts were the complete rewiring (stock wiring is 22ga), and getting the 3" deep speakers to fit.
For reference, there's about 2" between the outside mounting plane of the door metal to the window (or more specifically, the white roller thing on the window), and another 1.25-1.5" from that plane to the inside back of the door panel. I punched the door panel's grill holes through with a drill, and mounted the tweeter behind the panel - you have to look at the speakers straight-on to notice they're even there. Not the best thing for imaging; more in line with my goal of retaining the factory appearance.
For amplification I went what I've had good experience with, Rockford Fosgate, and their 800a4 (100x4 RMS into 4 ohms). It sits where the spare tire goes (err, went), with quick disconnects. I have a separate little loop-through connector so I can power the speakers off the head unit when the amp and subs are removed on autocross days, or if I want the spare in for a long trip. Right now I have two 8" JL Audio subs in a box I custom built to fit in the spare tire well of my last car, a Porsche 944. It fits ok in the stook, but I ought to eventually do another custom box to better utilize the space.
Never even considered a normal rear speaker. After tearing the interior apart, decided there wouldn't be enough room for what I wanted to use, a Focal 5WS (mini subwoofer). You may have better luck with some shallower coaxials.
The head unit is stock for now, and will continue to be until a fully wired solution presents itself. Right now the best prospect is empeg's new unit (http://www.empeg.com), with some homemade electronics to convert the varying resistances of the dash controls (which I absolutely will not sacrifice), to some sort of input on the device's serial port. It runs Linux for crying out loud!
I'll try to get some pics together and up on my website in the next week or so. Happy jammin' everyone!
Jason
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From: Bay Area
And.....HOW DOES IT SOUND (especially compared to stock..treble, bass, imaging, etc. -wise)?!
SOunds like the system I may make, albeit I'll be using MBQ's (unless they're not the de facto standard anymore) and probably some Stillwater tubes or so.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jzr
[B]At last, the thread I've been waiting for!
SOunds like the system I may make, albeit I'll be using MBQ's (unless they're not the de facto standard anymore) and probably some Stillwater tubes or so.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jzr
[B]At last, the thread I've been waiting for!
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From: San Diego
The stock system can't hold a candle to it. 
The Focals are just on another level from anything I've heard before (last car had MBQ's, which I still consider to be fantastic). I listened to a lot of different stuff, both in people's cars and out, and nothing I've heard (Boston, MB Quart, Polk Momo) compares. It's difficult to describe - how about "things can get incredibly loud without losing clarity in the vocals amongst an ample helping of bass". Unfortunately the bass is the more "soothing vibration" variety, because of its isolation than the "stop your heart and make your hair stand on end" that I'm used to. My guess is its -3db freq is around 35-40hz. I'm not really in the competition loop to know what the hot thing is these days, but what sealed the deal for me on the Focals was this: http://www.focal-america.com/news/main.htm. I've also heard superb things about the Diamond Audio Hex's, which I've seen member ricosuave pushing, though I haven't heard them myself.
Because of the location, things aren't immune to the "left knee balance control", but I'm a skinny little guy (5'7", 150lbs), so my leg doesn't block things too badly.
What remains to be done is to spend some time with my buddy's RTA and a studio reference disc, flattening things out - my hunch right now is there's too much in the 60-100hz range. The Focal X-overs also have adjustable tweeter levels (currently at -3db), but I haven't tried other settings; some testing will tell what to do. Also need to look at amp outputs to see the volume level where clipping begins. At this point other adjustability is limited to gain and xover freqs on the amp, don't know if I'll get an external eq. I'll probably just wait and get a head unit with one built in - I've already run the RCA's. I've got a couple buddies who recently put systems together; soon we plan on having an "RTA weekend", and I'll put together some freq. response graphs. My pitiful collection of adjectives can't do things justice. And as silly as it sounds, I started out with the same basic requirement I've always had: that I not be able to hear myself singing along, even at the top of my lungs. If you heard my singing, you'd understand.
As for what flava said, yes, mp3s did originally sound crap, as will just about any 128kb/sec stuff you download off the internet. 95% of my 16GB collection are ripped from my own CDs using AudioCatalyst with variable bitrate encoding at the highest quality, with no high freq. filter. Night and day difference. And I haven't actually purchased the empeg unit yet, it's just the best candidate for a replacement at this point. "Ultimate" sound qality will never be realized in a convertible anyway, especially an S2000. But the head unit purchase will probably have to wait a bit, as I think I'm going to participate in the group buy of those JDM wheels...
The Focals are just on another level from anything I've heard before (last car had MBQ's, which I still consider to be fantastic). I listened to a lot of different stuff, both in people's cars and out, and nothing I've heard (Boston, MB Quart, Polk Momo) compares. It's difficult to describe - how about "things can get incredibly loud without losing clarity in the vocals amongst an ample helping of bass". Unfortunately the bass is the more "soothing vibration" variety, because of its isolation than the "stop your heart and make your hair stand on end" that I'm used to. My guess is its -3db freq is around 35-40hz. I'm not really in the competition loop to know what the hot thing is these days, but what sealed the deal for me on the Focals was this: http://www.focal-america.com/news/main.htm. I've also heard superb things about the Diamond Audio Hex's, which I've seen member ricosuave pushing, though I haven't heard them myself.
Because of the location, things aren't immune to the "left knee balance control", but I'm a skinny little guy (5'7", 150lbs), so my leg doesn't block things too badly.
What remains to be done is to spend some time with my buddy's RTA and a studio reference disc, flattening things out - my hunch right now is there's too much in the 60-100hz range. The Focal X-overs also have adjustable tweeter levels (currently at -3db), but I haven't tried other settings; some testing will tell what to do. Also need to look at amp outputs to see the volume level where clipping begins. At this point other adjustability is limited to gain and xover freqs on the amp, don't know if I'll get an external eq. I'll probably just wait and get a head unit with one built in - I've already run the RCA's. I've got a couple buddies who recently put systems together; soon we plan on having an "RTA weekend", and I'll put together some freq. response graphs. My pitiful collection of adjectives can't do things justice. And as silly as it sounds, I started out with the same basic requirement I've always had: that I not be able to hear myself singing along, even at the top of my lungs. If you heard my singing, you'd understand.
As for what flava said, yes, mp3s did originally sound crap, as will just about any 128kb/sec stuff you download off the internet. 95% of my 16GB collection are ripped from my own CDs using AudioCatalyst with variable bitrate encoding at the highest quality, with no high freq. filter. Night and day difference. And I haven't actually purchased the empeg unit yet, it's just the best candidate for a replacement at this point. "Ultimate" sound qality will never be realized in a convertible anyway, especially an S2000. But the head unit purchase will probably have to wait a bit, as I think I'm going to participate in the group buy of those JDM wheels...
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From: Houston
Edit: oops didn't read jzr's reply but anyway...
Flava,
MP3's are what you make them to be..
I make my own from CD at 256Kbps and if I download I try to get nothing below 192Kbps.. I also do HQ Variable bitrates but not all players currently support them well..
If you listen to them even on a good home system at 256Kbps they are indistinguishable form the original.
Yes, at 128Kbps the sound is poor but still far superior in most aspects to FM and tape(even with Dolby S)..
But, I don't like 128 and will avoid it if possible.
The sacrifice at all 256Kbps music is 1/2 the music possible but still 4-5 times more per CD than standard CDs...
-John M
P.S. If you have a player that supports WMA then the sound is better than MP3 at the same bitrate..
[Edited by jnmunsey on 01-25-2001 at 10:28 PM]
Flava,
MP3's are what you make them to be..
I make my own from CD at 256Kbps and if I download I try to get nothing below 192Kbps.. I also do HQ Variable bitrates but not all players currently support them well..
If you listen to them even on a good home system at 256Kbps they are indistinguishable form the original.
Yes, at 128Kbps the sound is poor but still far superior in most aspects to FM and tape(even with Dolby S)..
But, I don't like 128 and will avoid it if possible.
The sacrifice at all 256Kbps music is 1/2 the music possible but still 4-5 times more per CD than standard CDs...
-John M
P.S. If you have a player that supports WMA then the sound is better than MP3 at the same bitrate..
[Edited by jnmunsey on 01-25-2001 at 10:28 PM]
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