Autoweek article
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Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Portland, OR
But Steve, some of these guys don't want a predictable handling car that can be pushed to it's limits with confidence. Some of them care more about being able to puff out their chests and say that they're manly men because they drive a car with sketchy handling characteristics 
. With the current car they can be legends in their own minds 
.
ron
. With the current car they can be legends in their own minds . ron
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Joined: Dec 2002
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From: Bay Area
Wow, Steve always steals the words right out of my mouth 
Having spent a lot of time in autox competition in both an '00 and '02 S2000, I would say it is the hardest car to drive at the limit of any RWD sports car I have run, because it has a loose balance on race tires to begin with, it is not very progressive when sliding (ie it tends to go all of a sudden) and because the steering effort does not vary much with load on the tires, so there isn't much perceptible lightening of it when tires start to slip.
I am comparing this to all other RWD sports cars I have spent significant seat time in, including my '93 MR2, my '99 Z3 Coupe, a Boxster, the Miata, and the MR2 Spyder.
I don't think we are trying to argue with anyone's experiences though. Race tires reduce the designed rear biased tire width stagger, so stock S2000s on set up for stock start out looser than they are on street tires. The MR2s I mentioned were more stable than stock due to larger front bars. But even with a larger front bar, the S2000 is trickier than the others. The local S2k on Penskes is supposedly much better, but even its owner, in an interview given after winning a national championship in it (his 3rd overall) said it took much more setup work than his other rides (MR2, MR2-T, Boxster) to inspire confidence.
I just believe that while the original was very responsive and commendably stiff, it was not perfect and there is room for improvement. If the '04 tweaks were done with an eye for the track as well as the street, the new car could be both faster and more rewarding to drive at the limit. There is still a lot of room to gain back rotation thru alignment and tire choice, so I somehow doubt the S2000 will become the kind of lawyer friendly, understeering pig that many have predicted it will be.
Peter
Having spent a lot of time in autox competition in both an '00 and '02 S2000, I would say it is the hardest car to drive at the limit of any RWD sports car I have run, because it has a loose balance on race tires to begin with, it is not very progressive when sliding (ie it tends to go all of a sudden) and because the steering effort does not vary much with load on the tires, so there isn't much perceptible lightening of it when tires start to slip.
I am comparing this to all other RWD sports cars I have spent significant seat time in, including my '93 MR2, my '99 Z3 Coupe, a Boxster, the Miata, and the MR2 Spyder.
I don't think we are trying to argue with anyone's experiences though. Race tires reduce the designed rear biased tire width stagger, so stock S2000s on set up for stock start out looser than they are on street tires. The MR2s I mentioned were more stable than stock due to larger front bars. But even with a larger front bar, the S2000 is trickier than the others. The local S2k on Penskes is supposedly much better, but even its owner, in an interview given after winning a national championship in it (his 3rd overall) said it took much more setup work than his other rides (MR2, MR2-T, Boxster) to inspire confidence.
I just believe that while the original was very responsive and commendably stiff, it was not perfect and there is room for improvement. If the '04 tweaks were done with an eye for the track as well as the street, the new car could be both faster and more rewarding to drive at the limit. There is still a lot of room to gain back rotation thru alignment and tire choice, so I somehow doubt the S2000 will become the kind of lawyer friendly, understeering pig that many have predicted it will be.
Peter
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From: Land of the landeaus
My personal opinion is the asthetic changes to the '04 will be more noticeable than the engineering changes. Most drivers do not drive their S2000 to the limits and it appears from the two reviews I have read on the newbie, you really have to wrangle it to get to the point where you'll notice the differences between the two models.
There are exceptions, but few, as there are with Boxster S owners. Most just cruise along in the car while a select few really push it. Many owners simply are not comfortable driving 8/10ths on public roads and have no overwhelming desire to track their car so at 6 to 7/10ths, the cars will probably feel very much like the same creature. You quickly get that impression from the link provided above. The reviewers didn't really notice the changes until someone else revealed them.
Unfortunately, newbie '04 owners won't have Uehara to spike their confidence.
Sounds like a well rounded package though, that's for sure.
There are exceptions, but few, as there are with Boxster S owners. Most just cruise along in the car while a select few really push it. Many owners simply are not comfortable driving 8/10ths on public roads and have no overwhelming desire to track their car so at 6 to 7/10ths, the cars will probably feel very much like the same creature. You quickly get that impression from the link provided above. The reviewers didn't really notice the changes until someone else revealed them.
Unfortunately, newbie '04 owners won't have Uehara to spike their confidence.
Sounds like a well rounded package though, that's for sure.
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Rochester
Okay, so this all begs the question: so exactly what is it about the S2000 that makes it a good (great?) handling car if there are so many concerns about snap oversteer and questionably communicative steering? I read about the above time and time again.
I don't consider fast lap times an answer as there are plenty of fast cars with evil handling. Nor does the inclusion of fantastically grippy OEM tires make a car a great handler (or does it?).
So, to you owners, why do you think it is such a great handler?
I don't consider fast lap times an answer as there are plenty of fast cars with evil handling. Nor does the inclusion of fantastically grippy OEM tires make a car a great handler (or does it?).
So, to you owners, why do you think it is such a great handler?