Drive a car with DBW, and another car without. See if YOU feel any difference.

 

I guess seatbelts add a level of complexity to a car and give you less control too?

You can't brake better than ABS on a dry or wet normal road surface. Period. The 10+ feet you give up in braking distance, might mean the difference between a slight scare, or a dead pedestrian.

 

^^^ Depends on the ABS. In the case of the S2000 ABS, I agree.

 

I do wish I have VSA on my S. Just a peace of mind ...

 

Regarding the linked vids, once you've gone totally sideways, ABS doesn't really have much effect. However in the 2nd vid, you can see either the ABS or the driver modulate the brakes as the car is going backwards, affecting his path. And that guy DID wind up in the haybales.

I've spun the S once, at Lime Rock. The spin had enough rotational speed that the ABS didn't have a big influence, but once I knew it was unrecoverable and I nailed the brakes (and clutch), it was a pretty sickening feeling to have the abs pulsing away under my foot.
There are documented cases of ABS causing accidents at the track in instances where the car would have slid off the track to the outside, but instead regained traction and drove back into the line.

Regarding the additional "10 feet" of braking in a straight line, that would depend on driver talent and proper brake bias in a non-ABS car, and on ABS "talent" in an ABS-car.

In any case, 10ft braking at .8-g amounts to about 15mph. Pedestrian's chances would be quite good

BTW, I wear my seatbelt always, don't see how they should affect my control of the car.

ABS and traction control are a good thing for 99% of the population. A BETTER thing for them would be to learn how to drive!

 

All that said, I'm not 100% against such systems, I just prefer not to have them on my car.
Unfortunately, stability-control systems are about to be mandated. I wonder how many of them are going to be better than a talented driver, especially the less-developed systems that will be on the vast majority of cars...

 

Well, I guess the majority of us that are less talented drivers than you guys with all the race/track experience may prefer VSA. The little AuotoX / track experiences I have do not necessarily translate to "able to avoid accidents all the time" on the road. The road offers too many variables one won't encounter on a track, like a dog running across a highway in your path when you doing 80mph in the night. I think this is what ABS / VSA is for. How stupid it would be to have these things in your car, disable them, then get into an accident because something caught you out requiring 111%.

I would rather have it on any car that spends 98% of its life on the road with traffic. I see no reason to be having "fun" on the road, the kind of fun that VSA would interfere with, unless of course it is a lonely mountain road with good visibility around corners. Even then, too much fun is still a bad thing, but that is just me.

 

Here's a question that can't be answered- How many times did VSA keep your S maintaning a relatively straight line?
How many times did your S maintain it's four wheels on the road and the road off your roof.?
If you answered once, then the value of VSA is well known.
If you answered never, I would ask "how do you really know for sure"?
To rely solely on driver skill and a seat belt to save your ass is not an attitude you should cherish.
Personally I'm looking forward to further advancements in all safety systems and probably further advancements in VSA systems.

 

As usual, this thread becomes hyperbolic. Not talking about GM's first generation implementation of abs or some theoretical problem.

ABS. Generally brakes better than non-abs, exc in snow/sand/gravel wedging. I don't like abs in US cars, but our abs is great. I can threshold brake all day long without intervention, just lift slightly...lol. Don't forget wea also get dynamic proportioning, but you knew that...

VSA. Turn it off if you don't like it, BFD. It is vastly better than BMW's E46 system, but probably worse than the new evo. It helps me on the street on ice.

DBW. Can't have vsa without dbw. Ours is not intrusive, YMMV.

 

VSA coming on in turns or on exit ramps was the first indication that I needed new tires up front. I also have an 06 and the outside 80% of the tire had plenty of ruber, but the inside was bald. So if VSA is coming on frequently, and in turns, check the rubber.

Turn the fronts all the way to lock, then look at the inner edge.