I'm currently driving a RWD car (97 M3) and also driven another
RWD a little back (94 Supra TT)... and I dont when to be careful
and not to push the car in some not too optimal conditions
(like rain or gravel)...

I original post was trying to say that... Does the wet grip (or dry
grip) characteristics of S02 change dramatically as the tires
gets wear out a little..
Another thing is like what firsts2k said.. that S02 doesn't give
enough warning to the driver that it is about to let go...

I do not own s2k nor S02 tires so all my conclusions & opinions
are coming from reading the post here... just wondering if these
danger of oversteers can be lessen/change by changing to
another tire.

 

Driver Driver Driver,
maybe if the tire blows, but if the tire is worn, its still the drivers fault because he or she didnt change them!

 

As I said in another thread, I recently drove my s2k down Coast Highway 1 in rain, heavy much of the time, all the way from San Francisco to Santa Barbara. This is a very twisty road with elevation changes and inconsistent banking (if any) on corners. I had previously driven this same route in dry conditions, so can compare the two experiences.

In the rain, I had to go quite a bit slower and a couple of times I did feel the rear end getting a little loose on me, but I never had any real problem controlling the car. I was still passing other cars.

First trip I had about 1500 miles on the tires, this time about 5k. Not enough to make a big difference in grip, I don't imagine.

cal

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JT-KGY
[B]I original post was trying to say that... Does the wet grip (or dry grip) characteristics of S02 change dramatically as the tires

 

Driver, error, for sure, unless there's mechanical failure. I have the Dunlop SP9000s, which are better in the rain, but I certainly would not blame them if I had an accident where I lost control of the car. Hey, the spin out at Lime Rock, in the rain, was complete and total driver error .

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bieg
[B]I agree with everyones answers so far.

 

I agree with the folks who say that it's driver error, because that's what it is...pure and simple. The fact of the matter is that there are things that are present which contribute to the propensity for a mishap...but at the end of the day, it's STILL THE DRIVER. If the conditions are such that they contribute to there being an accident, then you (the driver) needs to slow down and approach such conditions with caution and care.

99% of the time, this is the case...

The other 1% (maybe more) can be attributed to mechanical failure.

This car, like any other car has tendencies that must be learned...if you fail to learn the car, don't blame the car when it does what you tell it to do. The car never just "goes crazy" ... it WENT crazy because of the person behind the wheel.

My 37 Drachmas...

 

This is the best thread on this board to date!!! For all of the less experienced high performance drivers (measure after you leave your egos at the door), take a performance driving class, learn about the car (LSD, high perf tires, RWD, low polar moment of inertia etc). Drive some autocrosses in the wet.

The S2000 is fun but challenging if you are at the limit. Make sure you know what you are doing and don't treat it like a FWD car on all season tires.

 

A stable and consistent handling car will be easier to control at the limit, and therefore less people would get into trouble. That doesn't mean that the driver didn't screw up, rather that some quirk in the car's handling caused them to get in over their head (Think early 80's 911).

As mentioned in the other thread, the excessive bump-steer that the S2000 has been diagnosed with can exacerbate an already tenuous situation where an inexperienced driver tries to flirt with the limit on a bumpy or undulating road. This uncertain and unpredictable handling trait can cause an 'under-skilled' driver to get in trouble. Does that make it the car's fault? No.

However, if Honda hadn't designed so much bump-steer into the car, I think many of the accidents we are discussing (which isn't a huge number, imo) would not have happened. Does that in any way place any responsiblity on Honda? No way. Do we all need to recognize that our suspension isn't optimal and we should either be on guard, drive below the limit, or make sure we have the proper training and experience before attempting to attain the limits? Yes.

It's not an easy concept to grasp, but the S2000 has a somewhat flawed suspension design... making it all the trickier to control at the limit. We just all need to be careful if we are not comfortable driving an unpredictable car!

 

Yep and I also believe that the compromises of doing so are small and non-existant.

When I stop being able to keep up, I'll believe the S-02s were made by God. In the mean time, I'll believe they were selected because of a long-term tire contract, then overmodified to a narrow purpose.

Can anyone compare the OEM tire to a wholly Bridgestone designed S-02 in 245/45. I've experienced the Firehawks SZ (same carcass but wrong sizes) and thought they were pretty decent. What (if any) is the level of performance loss? What (if any) is the feedback and wet weather difference?

Maybe it is time to revisit a tire alternative discussion without argueing about the cause of all the wrecks. [BTW, perhaps one of the reasons that we're hearing about more wrecks is that we're beginning to make it OK to talk without pennance or shame.]