Disengaging Airbag
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 435
Likes: 0
From: Clarksville
The bottom line is: The dealers and AHM (and all reputable businesses for that matter) all have insurance policies to cover for potential liability, but who will take the risk? The problem is that messing with an airbag is a hot potato with huge potential liability, and most tuner mods do not have potential liability of this magnitude.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 42,315
Likes: 45
From: Central Massachusetts
Hmm... Clearly your hot potato comment is spot on, Terp. But, with respect to tuner mods, engines can blow up, suspensions can fall apart... I don't see any substantive difference in the magnitude of the liability here.
In any case, this is all academic. Honda is not, as a corporation, going to sanction an aftermarket kill switch for installation.
What remains interesting here is that there are at least two dealerships in the country that are installing these. As such, is AHM going to honor warranty claims if the switch fails or causes other systems to fail? If so, why would these dealers be allowed to do this? (I'm not complaining, I'm just interested)
In any case, this is all academic. Honda is not, as a corporation, going to sanction an aftermarket kill switch for installation.
What remains interesting here is that there are at least two dealerships in the country that are installing these. As such, is AHM going to honor warranty claims if the switch fails or causes other systems to fail? If so, why would these dealers be allowed to do this? (I'm not complaining, I'm just interested)
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 435
Likes: 0
From: Clarksville
Every year, there are hundreds of children and small adults killed or injured from airbag deployment while driving or sitting in the front. Most of course were not properly secured in the first place, but that's another story.... In an effort to reduce this airbag-induced injury, we are talking about disabling a federally mandated safety device. By doing this, we (and our installers) are now vulnerable to the other side of the liability equation, i.e. deliberately or accidentally disabling the airbag with an adult riding and causing injury or death in a situation where the airbag would've otherwise saved them. Ultimately, a Mercedes-like seat sensor that automatically kills the airbag as needed is the ideal solution IMO.
Meanwhile, exactly how many people are killed or injured each year directly as a result of modifications gone bad, i.e. engines blown up and failed suspensions? I'm not an expert on this, but I don't believe the number of deaths and injuries here is statistically significant.
As for the two dealerships, they have probably weighed the risks, talked with their insurance companies, trained their techs and priced the job accordingly. Afterall, I am in full agreement that the switch IS needed and they SHOULD install it--potential liability notwithstanding.
Meanwhile, exactly how many people are killed or injured each year directly as a result of modifications gone bad, i.e. engines blown up and failed suspensions? I'm not an expert on this, but I don't believe the number of deaths and injuries here is statistically significant.
As for the two dealerships, they have probably weighed the risks, talked with their insurance companies, trained their techs and priced the job accordingly. Afterall, I am in full agreement that the switch IS needed and they SHOULD install it--potential liability notwithstanding.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,584
Likes: 1
From: Baton Rouge, LA
S2KTerpNut - don't even get me started on lawyers in this nation... God knows, i'll be quoting Shakespeare before it's over... 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chazmo
[B]I didn't talk to AHM, but I might, pjk.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chazmo
[B]I didn't talk to AHM, but I might, pjk.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 42,315
Likes: 45
From: Central Massachusetts
Thanks, guys! Your comments about the "in your face" (literally and figuratively) nature of the airbag -- versus other tuner mods -- are pretty convincing. Also, I take no issue with your points about having "smart" airbags, and proper restraints. We're in violent agreement on all this. 
PJK, I'm interested in what specific part/manufacturer they use. If they have some input about the process of doing this, that'd be welcome too. I may also take you up on your extra room!
PJK, I'm interested in what specific part/manufacturer they use. If they have some input about the process of doing this, that'd be welcome too. I may also take you up on your extra room!
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,584
Likes: 1
From: Baton Rouge, LA
alright... i'll write myself a note to stop by today after work.
i'll be asking what switch they used and how the process went out.
and as i've been dwelling on it and going through this thread, i'm almost 100% positive that the process started with the customer calling AHM to get the work done...
in fact... i seem to recall the service manager telling me that the first package that came in to be done was a complete shock to everyone, since the customer had gone through AHM w/o any foreknowledge from the dealer.
i'll be asking what switch they used and how the process went out.
and as i've been dwelling on it and going through this thread, i'm almost 100% positive that the process started with the customer calling AHM to get the work done...
in fact... i seem to recall the service manager telling me that the first package that came in to be done was a complete shock to everyone, since the customer had gone through AHM w/o any foreknowledge from the dealer.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,584
Likes: 1
From: Baton Rouge, LA
Chazmo --
alright. i stopped by Team Honda and talked to the shop manager. he told me that they've done only 2 installs in the past several years, and as the shop manager, he did both. and he stated they both went via the same route/pattern. now, he's viewing this from the dealership's side of issues, so there may be other things that happen along the way... (just so you know.)
[list=1]
[*]the first step was the customer called the NHTSA at 1-800-424-9393
[*]he said the 2nd step was that the request was approved or denied
[*]there was some paperwork completed in here -- he was vague.
[*]after that, Honda contacted the customer to find out where their nearest dealership was
[*]the dealership then received a package directly from Honda, containing the switch, interfacing harnesses (no splicing - all plugs), and paperwork that the dealer completes.
[*]the dealer then contacted the customer and arranged an installation date and time.
[*]the rates for the job were completely fixed by Honda and the customer was made aware of them before.
[*]the car was dropped off, paperwork was signed, and the switch was installed.[/list=1]
he also noted that Honda forced the customer to pay for the switch to be removed before the car could be sold (?) and that all hardware was taken by the dealer and destroyed (?).
i hope this explains everything... if i missed something, ask because i might have not taken that down as a note, but remember it later... i'm trying to get this posted as quick as possible after hearing it...
alright. i stopped by Team Honda and talked to the shop manager. he told me that they've done only 2 installs in the past several years, and as the shop manager, he did both. and he stated they both went via the same route/pattern. now, he's viewing this from the dealership's side of issues, so there may be other things that happen along the way... (just so you know.)
[list=1]
[*]the first step was the customer called the NHTSA at 1-800-424-9393
[*]he said the 2nd step was that the request was approved or denied
[*]there was some paperwork completed in here -- he was vague.
[*]after that, Honda contacted the customer to find out where their nearest dealership was
[*]the dealership then received a package directly from Honda, containing the switch, interfacing harnesses (no splicing - all plugs), and paperwork that the dealer completes.
[*]the dealer then contacted the customer and arranged an installation date and time.
[*]the rates for the job were completely fixed by Honda and the customer was made aware of them before.
[*]the car was dropped off, paperwork was signed, and the switch was installed.[/list=1]
he also noted that Honda forced the customer to pay for the switch to be removed before the car could be sold (?) and that all hardware was taken by the dealer and destroyed (?).
i hope this explains everything... if i missed something, ask because i might have not taken that down as a note, but remember it later... i'm trying to get this posted as quick as possible after hearing it...