clawhammer

Are we supposed to downshift into 1st gear with our cars? I know that during autocrossing, coming out of the corner at 4000 rpms in 2nd is not the fastest way, so I like to downshift into 1st. However, I don't double clutch, because I'm somewhat big, and my knee hits the steering wheel. Am I sending my transmission to an early grave? Should I stop doing it?

mikegarrison

What would be wrong with downshifting into first? It's just another gear, same as the others.

Sfkn2

It's fine if you know how to do it correctly; rev matching and downshifting. Otherwise, it won't go into gear, as there is a 1st gear lock-out in all manual cars.

I always downshift into 1st when it's a tight turn, so that I can kick the rear out a bit, and guide myself OUT of the turn.

xviper

Double clutching to get into first is only if it is necessary to defeat the blocker ring. The faster you are going the harder it is to defeat the blocker ring. If you can do it by simply rev matching, then do it. The blocker ring is obviously not an issue for you in that driving situation.
You may simply have mastered a technique whereby you can actually spin up the tranny as you are leaving 2nd, just before the de-clutch, so you don't actually have to stop in neutral and rev. A few guys have got this down and it makes the rest of us look like goofs because we have to double clutch. I'm slowly getting the hang of not having to double clutch to get into 1st at speed, but I'm not quite there yet.

mikegarrison

Hmm, I guess I never tried to go into first with my revs seriously mismatched. That would be a bad thing to do anyway, so no big loss.

clawhammer

My dad thought me how to drive manual, and he learned to drive in a 3rd world country where they have really crappy cars. He told me that 1st gear is really only for starting the car, when your moving, your not supposed to shift into 1st. I always thought that it was because maybe first gear didn't have a synchro, but I'm not sure, so that's why I posted here.

I did notice that say at 25 mph, I had to give it quite a bit of pressure to get it in there. Is that bad?

xviper

That pressure you feel is the action of the blocker ring. If you force it too hard, you can wear the ring out. I've noticed that as the car gets more and more miles on it, I can shift into 1st by simply rev matching (and not double clutching) at higher and higher speeds. This is telling me that something is happening to the blocker ring. It may be wearing in or wearing out. Wearing "out" would be a bad thing. I'm just not sure which. I rarely shift into 1st when rolling in daily driving. I'll mostly put it into 1st when the car's road speed is almost down to nothing.

Like already said, 1st itself is no different than any other gear. It's just harder to downshift smoothly into it and maybe that's why your father told you this. For day to day operations, downshifting into 1st is just too jerky and requires more finesse. It's easier to just not do it for daily stuff.

mikegarrison

Yeah, I rarely use first except to get the car moving from a dead stop.

RED MX5

Since you're an autocrosser I'll take this opportunity to encourage you to attend one of the Evolution schools. I promise you, the school will improve your autocross times.

Evolution school instructors are always holders of multiple national and pro-series championships, so they have proven that they know what it takes to go fast on an autocross course. One of the things they insist on is that you get into second gear as soon as possible, and stay there for the entire run. There are lots of reasons for this, but the bottom line is that everyone is turning faster times at the end of the day, so staying in second certainly isn't slowing the students down. However, at my first Evolution Phase One school, and always being somewhat of a skeptic, I asked the instructors if they actually ran their cars at the national and pro levels in second gear. To my surprise, they all said that except on rare occasions, that's exactly what they do. If I autocrossed to win I'd probably do it too, but I autocross for fun, and it's more fun to row the shifter during the run, so that's what I do. The throttle is more responsive in first, so the car isn't as easy to drive, and the shifting takes attention away from other duties, but on those times when I put together a fairly good run my times are as quick or quicker than what I can run by staying in second the entire time.

As others have said, as long as you rev-match and shift well you don't have to worry about damaging things, and even if you are slower when you downshift, the runs will *feel* a heck of a lot faster, because the car will be accelerating off the turns quite a bit harder. Try it both ways, and compare the times; See what kind of a difference it actually makes, *for you.*

clawhammer

Last autocross I went to, I had 8 runs total. The first 7 I did shifting between first and second, and the last one I did all in 2nd. My last run was 1 second slower than my best one. I thought it was becaue I stayed in second. Was there some other variable? I will admit that the car was much easier to control though.